Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Trade skills (gathering), et al. Lets help fix this!
Hatchet
Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
The combined thread about gathering wood issues while cathartic didn't offer much in the way of helping correct the concerns being voiced. So lets fix that and build a better system.
First the actual combining of materials seems to be completely untuned and a place holder skeleton, it lacks reliable risk/time vs reward, and the forging aspect has to many steps bouncing you between interactions (it seems to be purposefully obtuse). It is functional but that is about it, we would need to see a more fleshed out system to offer ideas in future iterations.
Second, death drops are an issue that need to be looked at and balanced so will not be the focus of this post.
Now lets focus on what Intrepid has offered in the way of gathering materials in this test. Which is in my opinion an archaic "semi-fixed-timed spawn" from MMO's decades old. It acts like a time consuming punishment instead of an entry level teaching point to get you excited about gathering crafting materials.
FISHING:
This should never have been spawn location focused. Running around the lake looking for the five area spawns to refresh without competition is an unneeded time sink. Fishing needs to be "area activated" with water sources mapped as the node itself you cast into, the result based on the type of fishing pole, with random matched outcome for reward. Games like Fortnite have this down, I believe you guys have room for vast improvement.
Starter Quest?
There is not one for fishing and it is better to pretend we are all dumb than assume we are not. Have an alchemist by the table offer a skip-able introduction where they would let you borrow a no-trade pole to catch them two snapper (this would also work as the lead-in to create potions). upon completion you return the pole/fish for minimal xp, and a token for a fishing pole from the vendor or some type of "credit" to lower the cost.
GATHERING:
One change I would personally like to see are that resources are shared spawns and not first-come-first-served. As the current spawns will eventually lead to non-PVP grieffing, which we have example of from pretty much all the games that have come before.
WOOD
This particular resource has been the main focal point of consternation, not enough wood, not enough locations, to much needed. So lets try and alleviate some of the tension.
Instead of being thrown to the wolves as it were, have a carpenter by the forge ask for you to cut down some trees (starter quest). You would be given a no-trade axe and pointed to a specific location with 20 smaller trees that give one wood when chopped. In the center of these trees would be a larger tree that when you try and cut it would give you the message that you need the copper/iron axe. This teaches you the mechanics of what to do and tells you that you will need better harvesting equipment in the future. This should be reinforced by the carpenter who would tell you that chopping down bigger trees will give you more wood; ie. chopping down a tree that requires the copper axe would give you 2-4 logs, Iron axe 4-6 logs, and so forth.
As a resource trees need to be better balanced via location, grouping, and spawn rate.
STONE/FLOWERS
This is probably the least troublesome pair as they seemed to be both plentiful and spaced in obvious locations. I do not have any complaints outside of using the wood system above. We could have the alchemist give you a starter quest for gathering herbs, and a Mason have you break some of the many rocks/rubble around the fortress in the same way.
There are a couple of resources but by now I think everyone gets the idea I was shooting for.
Ideally any tradeskill/gathering action should have a starter quest outlining the basics. This helps familiarize the player with what to look for, prepares them for what they will need in the future, and creates necessary immersion on a basic level as you interact with the world around you.
I am apprehensive to say this since we are so early on, but the gathering system implemented by Amazon's New World is going to set bar pretty high with its execution and ease of use when combined into the overall crafting system.
First the actual combining of materials seems to be completely untuned and a place holder skeleton, it lacks reliable risk/time vs reward, and the forging aspect has to many steps bouncing you between interactions (it seems to be purposefully obtuse). It is functional but that is about it, we would need to see a more fleshed out system to offer ideas in future iterations.
Second, death drops are an issue that need to be looked at and balanced so will not be the focus of this post.
Now lets focus on what Intrepid has offered in the way of gathering materials in this test. Which is in my opinion an archaic "semi-fixed-timed spawn" from MMO's decades old. It acts like a time consuming punishment instead of an entry level teaching point to get you excited about gathering crafting materials.
FISHING:
This should never have been spawn location focused. Running around the lake looking for the five area spawns to refresh without competition is an unneeded time sink. Fishing needs to be "area activated" with water sources mapped as the node itself you cast into, the result based on the type of fishing pole, with random matched outcome for reward. Games like Fortnite have this down, I believe you guys have room for vast improvement.
Starter Quest?
There is not one for fishing and it is better to pretend we are all dumb than assume we are not. Have an alchemist by the table offer a skip-able introduction where they would let you borrow a no-trade pole to catch them two snapper (this would also work as the lead-in to create potions). upon completion you return the pole/fish for minimal xp, and a token for a fishing pole from the vendor or some type of "credit" to lower the cost.
GATHERING:
One change I would personally like to see are that resources are shared spawns and not first-come-first-served. As the current spawns will eventually lead to non-PVP grieffing, which we have example of from pretty much all the games that have come before.
WOOD
This particular resource has been the main focal point of consternation, not enough wood, not enough locations, to much needed. So lets try and alleviate some of the tension.
Instead of being thrown to the wolves as it were, have a carpenter by the forge ask for you to cut down some trees (starter quest). You would be given a no-trade axe and pointed to a specific location with 20 smaller trees that give one wood when chopped. In the center of these trees would be a larger tree that when you try and cut it would give you the message that you need the copper/iron axe. This teaches you the mechanics of what to do and tells you that you will need better harvesting equipment in the future. This should be reinforced by the carpenter who would tell you that chopping down bigger trees will give you more wood; ie. chopping down a tree that requires the copper axe would give you 2-4 logs, Iron axe 4-6 logs, and so forth.
As a resource trees need to be better balanced via location, grouping, and spawn rate.
STONE/FLOWERS
This is probably the least troublesome pair as they seemed to be both plentiful and spaced in obvious locations. I do not have any complaints outside of using the wood system above. We could have the alchemist give you a starter quest for gathering herbs, and a Mason have you break some of the many rocks/rubble around the fortress in the same way.
There are a couple of resources but by now I think everyone gets the idea I was shooting for.
Ideally any tradeskill/gathering action should have a starter quest outlining the basics. This helps familiarize the player with what to look for, prepares them for what they will need in the future, and creates necessary immersion on a basic level as you interact with the world around you.
I am apprehensive to say this since we are so early on, but the gathering system implemented by Amazon's New World is going to set bar pretty high with its execution and ease of use when combined into the overall crafting system.
3
Comments
Formerly T-Elf
I was also under the impression that the wood situation was moslty bad in the starting zone. When I spent time in the Northen section of the map, I came accross lots of trees and other materials that I would lose to dying, but there were a lot more.
- So maybe simply boost the spawn rate in the starting area along with some Harvesting starter quests and we're golden!
As for fishing, I would also use the FFXIV model where certain location can give certain fishes depending on your rod. But that node fishing style is definitely not the answer.
I mean, make it reactive! WoW, Lost Ark, FFXIV, Tera... Pick your model, anything is better than simply clicking a button at specific location.
Every other point mentionned above I agree however, shared resources may not be the exact answer. Maybe look at how WoW has been doing it for the past few years: Shared but on a timer
i.e: When someone starts harvesting, there is a 20-30 seconds window for someone else to gather it.
I disagree on all points if you couldn't figure that out from my reply.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
There are many reasons to engage in open world PvP in Ashes of Creation.[7]
Scarce resources.[7]
Hunting grounds.[7]
Caravans.[7]
Sieges.[7]
Guild wars.[7]
I really hate to be that guy but this is way early alpha place holder stuff nowhere near a finished product. What we have so far is basic operation to give people stuff to do while they are collecting data to help them make a good product. Give them a minute to get stuff in place then we can talk about content.
Basic quests for learning about crafting will most likely be in some time around beta 1 for testing.
I think the resources should not be two steps away. Leave the starter area and go do stuff. By the time I collected enough wood to make the wand I was level 6 cause I was gathering as I went.
I think it is by design that some areas have little to harvest while others have resources in large quantities. We are early on and their true vision for gathering has yet to be implemented. But having said that they do desire our feed back.
Steven has said that you will find gatherables where they ought to naturally occur. Crumbling rock formations often had lots or ore. Dense (not sparse) forests had concentrations of lumber. Where shallow water dropped into deep water there were lots of fish, including big ones. When you think about it - all of that makes sense, right? Personally, I like a game where you have to think about it!
I am still trying to get my head around when I want to kill another player and when I don't. If I am trying to level up "my" node, I want gatherers to gather in peace within my node because it give my node xp. I would want to harry enemy node gatherers so they wouldn't get their xp and so they could not craft as many items to combat us directly. I feel that there will be less random PKing when a whole group is trying to build a node.
I also feel you absolutely want hand holding at the beginning to teach new players how to operate the game. Folks that don't need the tutorials can skip or breeze through them, but if you are going to get into a game, and have to pay every month, and you are confused and frustrated at the beginning, you are not going to pay for another month. You don't have to hold hands all the way through the game, but at the beginning having intuitive demonstrations of how to gather, refine, craft, fight, caravan, siege, and affect nodes is really important. You don't have to dump all of that on someone at once, but before they make significant or permanent decisions for their toon, you want them to understand the decisions they are making.
I like that larger nodes will be close to the starting areas probably, but that also runs the risk of new folks being confused at all the things to possibly do. Having the starter quests explain the game gives them direction and hopefully gets them hooked.
As to collection as it is, it felt like a placeholder. I'm looking for the next feedback thread on gathering to start giving solutions, will be interested to see what the design team has in store!
I like the idea of shared resources on a timer (either always on, or starting after the first gather) which would alleviate griefing and others swooping in at the last second after you have cleared a path. I do believe some have miss understood a very important word in the fighting over resources PVP link though, and that is "scarce". Everything we are currently discussing is supposed to be common. The issue overall is that these resources have not been tuned correctly which has resulted in testing scarcity and the many threads and comments about it. I simply decided to offer an option to try and better the issue instead of regurgitating negativity.
As to the content of the other posts. Overall I do not believe asking for a skip-able tutorial that introduces players to the crafting system so they can be taught where and what to look for while adding value to balance that same system is "asking to water down the game for casuals". Easing players into something new is the point of a tutorial or entry level quest, which in my opinion is what the first crafting quests should be.
Reading the above posts it seems there is a lot of dislike, even out right mockery of people who choose to play an MMO "casually" (how ever that is personally defined). Unfortunately that is the bulk of the paying and playing customer base so creating introductory quests for them is good game design. Not every step of playtime has to be a pseudo masochist trench fight to prove that you are a true "hard core" player... lol