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Feedback: Combat, mats % loss on death, gathering

Dr3amerADr3amerA Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited October 17 in Alpha One Spot Testing Archive
I will try to keep this short because i believe many issues have been reported/discussed before.

Overall i am having a great experience in this Alpha 1. No install issues just a blurry graphics thing that's probably due to my PC being on the lower end of specs.

I try to play something different with each test so i can have an overall understanding on things.

The problem i had with combat was the fact that melee weapon attacks move you forward.
When using melee weapon your character moves closer and closer to target NPC but when you are too close your opponent isn't inside the arc of your skill (although target is in front of you) making you need to step back a little to cast the skill. I noticed this mostly with the Cleric skills. Also moves you past your target making you adjust your position.

Using wand and spellbook i can move backwards while using the weapon attack but not when using melee weapon. If i use melee weapon i have to decide if i want to escape of fight. I can't move backwards while attacking as it moves me forward and defeats the purpose.
As i see it ranged weapons seem to have a clear advantage. I would assume all weapons need the same mechanic in order to be balanced and i personally don't see the need or advantage of moving forward but i would like to know if anyone can inform me.

About the % of raw resources you lose on death all i have to say is it seems kinda steep at first glance. When i tested it i had 22 herbs and with 1 death i was down to 11 herbs. Didn't notice if it was 50% for all resources of if resources have different % or if what killed you matters.
It makes me think x3 times more about how i want to go about doing quests and makes bank space and location pivotal in the experience. I don't hate it that i have to organize more before going out of town but the 50% seems much.
Also if it was just a flat % i would assume i should never lose all my raw materials? If i have 1 stone and i died should i lose it? Does this work as intended? Just a few thoughts.

My only issue with gathering was that i again don't understand why i can't gather while in combat.
Not sure if its just at an early stage or if that is how you want it to be but i think if i am able to prevent a monster from attacking me while in combat i should be able to press E to gather. It adds flavor to the grind, a trivial challenge to find different ways to do it and it gives me a choice if i want to cc a monster and gather the resource to prevent the player coming to get it as he sees i'm in combat or if i want to keep the skill ready for the potential PvP.

Comments

  • Dr3amerADr3amerA Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Also i would love to be able to jump and cast my instant abilities. Many if not all can't do that.

    When you jump and press roll/dodge while in the air the animation doesn't seem too fluid. Especially on dwarves that also do a flip when they jump.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dr3amerA wrote: »
    Using wand and spellbook i can move backwards while using the weapon attack but not when using melee weapon. If i use melee weapon i have to decide if i want to escape of fight. I can't move backwards while attacking as it moves me forward and defeats the purpose.
    As i see it ranged weapons seem to have a clear advantage. I would assume all weapons need the same mechanic in order to be balanced and i personally don't see the need or advantage of moving forward but i would like to know if anyone can inform me.
    Agreed. I've always been interested in playing a Tank in this game but I found both that archetype and the Cleric to be tedious. I've been having a blast (no pun intended) with the Mage, so much so that I'm leaning toward that as my main. Yes, there are 5 other archetypes that we haven't been able to see yet and this is very early alpha so it's almost a guarantee that melee will be very different between now and release. But I'm falling in love with Mages, I can't help it.

    (And I'm aware that weapons and archetypes are independent of each other, and you can be a Tank with wand or a Cleric with a bow, but for a Tank at least your offensive abilities require melee range so I still prefer a Mage.)
    About the % of raw resources you lose on death all i have to say is it seems kinda steep at first glance. When i tested it i had 22 herbs and with 1 death i was down to 11 herbs. Didn't notice if it was 50% for all resources of if resources have different % or if what killed you matters.
    It makes me think x3 times more about how i want to go about doing quests and makes bank space and location pivotal in the experience. I don't hate it that i have to organize more before going out of town but the 50% seems much.
    Also if it was just a flat % i would assume i should never lose all my raw materials? If i have 1 stone and i died should i lose it? Does this work as intended? Just a few thoughts.
    I'm assuming it rounds up on an odd number. So if you die and have 3 stone you lose 2 of them, if you only have 1 you have none left. One of the big selling points for this game was to make death be painful the way it used to be in MMORPGs in the older games. I have to say that they seem to have nailed that. I died a couple of times and almost cried, especially since at first I was having so much trouble even finding anything I could harvest. (I never found more than 6 pieces of redwood lumber when my quest needed 24 to make a new wand, oh well.)

    They could scale it back a bit but I hope they don't do it too much. They seem to be living up to their promise to make this feel old school and it does. It did suck when I was exploring and something 10 levels above me jumps me and takes me out, but that sort of thing SHOULD suck, and it taught me to be more careful.
    My only issue with gathering was that i again don't understand why i can't gather while in combat.
    Not sure if its just at an early stage or if that is how you want it to be but i think if i am able to prevent a monster from attacking me while in combat i should be able to press E to gather. It adds flavor to the grind, a trivial challenge to find different ways to do it and it gives me a choice if i want to cc a monster and gather the resource to prevent the player coming to get it as he sees i'm in combat or if i want to keep the skill ready for the potential PvP.
    That's pretty common in any RPG. I see two advantages to this. One is that if you want to harvest something being guarded by a monster, you have to defeat the monster to collect your reward, and you can't get away with looting and running. The other advantage is that if you get into PvP to contest a resource, you won't have one of the combatants looting it in the middle of the fight; the fight needs to be resolved first so that the winner can take it (as well as being able to loot what the opponent drops as well). So I hope it stays this way.
     
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  • Dr3amerADr3amerA Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    That's pretty common in any RPG. I see two advantages to this. One is that if you want to harvest something being guarded by a monster, you have to defeat the monster to collect your reward, and you can't get away with looting and running. The other advantage is that if you get into PvP to contest a resource, you won't have one of the combatants looting it in the middle of the fight; the fight needs to be resolved first so that the winner can take it (as well as being able to loot what the opponent drops as well). So I hope it stays this way.

    To be honest i didn't think that you could just put the other player in combat and have him unable to gather. I can accept it a bit more now if it stays that way.
    I had it like a mini game in my mind in its PvE form when i gather but i agree that looting and running would be a problem since you could also get cced and lose that resource under your nose. I'm sure some people would do just that to get you so the way its now solves this concern it seems.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Regarding moving forward when you attack. Try this, line up directly facing your enemy prior to attacking. Moving forward then jams you against the enemy. Once I started doing this, my problem was solved.

    Regarding dropping mats, first I am confident that they will adjust percentages as time goes on. Second, whenever I went to town I would sell unneeded mats, since you don't drop gold, this way you are at less risk. Third, and most important, having a real cost to dying is going to make us better players, less careless. I know it did me! I like this feature, very much.
  • ShrillsShrills Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    tautau wrote: »
    Regarding moving forward when you attack. Try this, line up directly facing your enemy prior to attacking. Moving forward then jams you against the enemy. Once I started doing this, my problem was solved.

    This only works for PVE. In PVP it felt pretty awful when your target isn't standing there like a tree stump. :)
  • Ir1shguyIr1shguy Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hmm I always lost everything in my bag on death.
  • AsraielAsraiel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    the loss was 50% of the grindeble items like stones or essence shards. but everything that was achived thru crafting or bought with gold wasnt effected by the loss
    but if you died like 3 times in a row the loss was 87.5% allredy and it did calc down so if u had 3 items then u will loose 2 on death. alldo in a party where u get resurected with the skill it doesnt aply. even if if resurected at a spawn i seemed that non of that mats were lost. can be wrong cause i didnt pay to much attention on it by when it happend
  • SoggyBandaidSoggyBandaid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dr3amerA wrote: »
    That's pretty common in any RPG. I see two advantages to this. One is that if you want to harvest something being guarded by a monster, you have to defeat the monster to collect your reward, and you can't get away with looting and running. The other advantage is that if you get into PvP to contest a resource, you won't have one of the combatants looting it in the middle of the fight; the fight needs to be resolved first so that the winner can take it (as well as being able to loot what the opponent drops as well). So I hope it stays this way.

    To be honest i didn't think that you could just put the other player in combat and have him unable to gather. I can accept it a bit more now if it stays that way.
    I had it like a mini game in my mind in its PvE form when i gather but i agree that looting and running would be a problem since you could also get cced and lose that resource under your nose. I'm sure some people would do just that to get you so the way its now solves this concern it seems.

    To be honest I sort of think gathering should be available through combat until death. If a high level or tanky player wants to gather while taking damage, let them. If a fast player wants to chance a few hits to finish gathering before a mobs wipes them, let them. If players want to PVP over material and one decides to loot and dash, let them. To me that sounds like risk versus reward. If the loot ninja is killed trying to run away and they drop half material round up, the winning PVP player will get the material either way.
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