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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Feedback: Questing, EXP, Desync, Nodes
Kaban
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Without any further ado,
Questing: It seems there is a problem with quest markers as quite often they mark location completely on the other side of the map. It would seem the markers themselves are "predestined" for certain nodes being advanced to certain level rather than marking the actual area corresponding to the node state. I like the fact tho that markers mark the area rather than direct point (in most cases) so it encourages exploration.
EXP: Party exp seems really slow in larger parties and is rather discouraging (i do understand exp numeric values aren't final), we could use a slight boost to party exp, as I've mentioned a while ago on discord lets consider increasing base exp a mob gives by 20% per party member. This way a party of two will get equivalent of 60% of base exp instead of 50%. The difference might not be significant for smaller parties but would definitely encourage creating larger groups as the exp loss due to split would be mitigated.
Desync: It would seem that it poses some problem especially for melee. I was connect with 16ms 99% of the time but quite often my melee hits would simply not connect to the monster that has been attacking me, moving around a bit usually helped to "reset" our positions but it ended up being a major nuisance.
Nodes: On our last day of testing we have witnessed a drastic slowdown in node progression. As Margaret explained nodes gain exp from monsters we kill that is a part of the XP we acquire. On servers where the population is lower there's less possibilities to progress and since all progress is tied to nodes it will become a deterring factor in the future if not handled. The problem becomes even grater as players level up since they acquire even less experience form killing monsters thus their contribution becomes smaller and smaller, without progressing nodes it becomes more difficult to find suitable monsters to kill and we're locked in a vicious circle where node doesn't progress because players do not provide it with enough experience and they don't provide node with enough experience because the node did not progress on the first place. One solution I came up with is the "PoE skill gem leveling formula". In Path of Exile alongside our character we level up skill gems that acquire 10% of slain monster XP. Thing is as player levels up they'll get less and less XP from a monster as level difference increases. Skill gems are however an exception, as the XP they gain is always tied to monster's base XP value.
For example;
If a lvl 1 player kills a lvl 1 monster that gives 100 XP, player acquire 100 XP, gems acquire 10 XP.
If a lvl 10 player kills a lvl 1 monster that gives 100 xp, player acquire 45 XP, gems still acquire 10 XP
By applying the same rule to the node system, that is tying Node XP gain to slain monster BASE XP GAIN rather than ACTUAL XP GAIN we will allow less populated servers to still grow at a steady pace, since higher level characters would be able to clear low lvl spots quicker while still providing a fair amount of XP to the node. And at the same time preventing high population servers from progressing too quick by zerging high lvl mobs for bonus XP. And before anyone comes with a "what's the difference XP is XP" I'll explain it mathematically:
Lets assume the following:
Node needs 1.000.000 XP to lvl up to Tier 1.
Level 1 mob provides 50 XP.
Node contribution is 50% of players' earned XP.
Players kill lvl 1 monsters.
Players need:
1000 XP to level up to level 2.
2000 XP to level 3.
5000 XP to level 4.
10.000 XP to lvl 5.
Lets assume XP gain from a mob killed decreases if the difference is higher than 2 levels, and decreases by 10% per level.
Now lets assume two scenarios:
#1 High population server has 200 players hunting in a node and they kill monsters at the same speed (remember its a theory).
20 monsters is needed for a player to level up to level 2.
A node with 200 players gets a total XP contribution of 100.000 by the time avg player level hits 2. (Number of players*XP)/2.
From level 2 to 3 that amount is again increased by 200.000 XP (since every player has to kill 40 monsters to advance)
From level 3 to 4 players need to kill 100 monsters each for level up. This equals 500.000 XP. The node now has 800.000 XP which means it is developed at 80%. Total amount of monsters killed is 32.000 (160 monsters per player).
Now all players are lvl 4. The experience penalty is 10%. Meaning they get 45 XP for every kill instead of 50. Contribution also changes and is now at 22.5XP instead of 25 per monster.
The node needs another 200.000 XP to lvl up. This means another 8.889 monsters have to be killed in order to progress.
Divide that between 200 players and every player has to kill 45 monsters on average. Meaning the node progresses while average player level is 4 and a total of 40.900 monsters on average has been killed.
Now lets assume scenario #2:
Low population server has 50 players within the node.
By the time they reach lvl 2 the node acquires 25.000 XP. (Player count*XP)/2.
By the time they reach lvl 3 the node acquires another 50.000 XP.
By the time they reach lvl 4 the node acquires yet another 125.000 XP and has now in total 200.000 XP or 20% progress. At this point they have killed 8.000 monsters.
XP penalty kicks in. Players again acquire 10% less experience and while at level 4 they still have to kill 35.556 monsters. With previously 8.000 monsters killed their kill prediction now stands at an average 43.556 monsters vs 40.900 that guaranteed node upgrade in the first scenario.
But that's not the end. every player who acquires 5k XP advances to lvl 5. Meaning each player can kill up to 112 monsters before levelling up again. That gives us a total of 5.600 monsters killed.
At lvl 5 total monster kills are at 13.600 and the node XP is increased by 126.000 and is now at 326.000 total. With that in mind they still need 674.000 XP more to advance the node. Yet XP is decreased another time (I'll do it multiplicatively so its less severe) 10% of 45 is 4,5. So every kill now awards 41.5 XP and contributes 20.75 instead of 22.5 XP. Which means to get remaining 674.000 XP players have to kill another 32.482 monsters. So the total estimate is now 13.600 + 32.482 = 46.082.
That's almost 6.000 monsters more than the players in scenario #1. Even if we keep XP decrease at it (19% effective penalty) we can see how much the time between progression is increased. Not mentioning the fact the kills are happening at 1/4 speed.
Lets now put it into hours. Lets assume players kill one monster every 30 seconds on average. In scenario #1 every player has to kill on average 205 monsters which takes 102,5 minutes which is slightly under 2 hours after that time the node evolves.
In scenario #2 every player has to kill 272 monsters before lvl 5 and another 650 afterwards that tallies up to 922 monsters per player or 461 minutes. which is more than 7,5h. The discrepancy would be even larger when trying to level up a node from lvl 1 to 2 as scenario #2 players would be most likely overlevelled once the node has advanced.
Now lets compare scenarios #1 and #2 if the node contribution XP is tied directly to the monster base XP rather than player XP gained.
Scenario #1 there's no big change as after reaching lvl 4 players have to kill 8.000 monsters instead of 8.889 meaning each of them has to kill 5 monsters less on average which reduces node development time by roughly 2,5 minutes.
Scenario #2 however notices a significant increases in XP contribution as having to kill 40.000 monsters total instead of 46.082 decreases amount of monsters to kill per player by 122 which saves them roughly an hour. It also decreases the risk of becoming overlevelled or at least mitigates its effects to some extent.
Please do keep in mind this is just a theory crafting that assumes ideal conditions within both scenarios and all the values given serves as an example.
Cheers glorious community
Questing: It seems there is a problem with quest markers as quite often they mark location completely on the other side of the map. It would seem the markers themselves are "predestined" for certain nodes being advanced to certain level rather than marking the actual area corresponding to the node state. I like the fact tho that markers mark the area rather than direct point (in most cases) so it encourages exploration.
EXP: Party exp seems really slow in larger parties and is rather discouraging (i do understand exp numeric values aren't final), we could use a slight boost to party exp, as I've mentioned a while ago on discord lets consider increasing base exp a mob gives by 20% per party member. This way a party of two will get equivalent of 60% of base exp instead of 50%. The difference might not be significant for smaller parties but would definitely encourage creating larger groups as the exp loss due to split would be mitigated.
Desync: It would seem that it poses some problem especially for melee. I was connect with 16ms 99% of the time but quite often my melee hits would simply not connect to the monster that has been attacking me, moving around a bit usually helped to "reset" our positions but it ended up being a major nuisance.
Nodes: On our last day of testing we have witnessed a drastic slowdown in node progression. As Margaret explained nodes gain exp from monsters we kill that is a part of the XP we acquire. On servers where the population is lower there's less possibilities to progress and since all progress is tied to nodes it will become a deterring factor in the future if not handled. The problem becomes even grater as players level up since they acquire even less experience form killing monsters thus their contribution becomes smaller and smaller, without progressing nodes it becomes more difficult to find suitable monsters to kill and we're locked in a vicious circle where node doesn't progress because players do not provide it with enough experience and they don't provide node with enough experience because the node did not progress on the first place. One solution I came up with is the "PoE skill gem leveling formula". In Path of Exile alongside our character we level up skill gems that acquire 10% of slain monster XP. Thing is as player levels up they'll get less and less XP from a monster as level difference increases. Skill gems are however an exception, as the XP they gain is always tied to monster's base XP value.
For example;
If a lvl 1 player kills a lvl 1 monster that gives 100 XP, player acquire 100 XP, gems acquire 10 XP.
If a lvl 10 player kills a lvl 1 monster that gives 100 xp, player acquire 45 XP, gems still acquire 10 XP
By applying the same rule to the node system, that is tying Node XP gain to slain monster BASE XP GAIN rather than ACTUAL XP GAIN we will allow less populated servers to still grow at a steady pace, since higher level characters would be able to clear low lvl spots quicker while still providing a fair amount of XP to the node. And at the same time preventing high population servers from progressing too quick by zerging high lvl mobs for bonus XP. And before anyone comes with a "what's the difference XP is XP" I'll explain it mathematically:
Lets assume the following:
Node needs 1.000.000 XP to lvl up to Tier 1.
Level 1 mob provides 50 XP.
Node contribution is 50% of players' earned XP.
Players kill lvl 1 monsters.
Players need:
1000 XP to level up to level 2.
2000 XP to level 3.
5000 XP to level 4.
10.000 XP to lvl 5.
Lets assume XP gain from a mob killed decreases if the difference is higher than 2 levels, and decreases by 10% per level.
Now lets assume two scenarios:
#1 High population server has 200 players hunting in a node and they kill monsters at the same speed (remember its a theory).
20 monsters is needed for a player to level up to level 2.
A node with 200 players gets a total XP contribution of 100.000 by the time avg player level hits 2. (Number of players*XP)/2.
From level 2 to 3 that amount is again increased by 200.000 XP (since every player has to kill 40 monsters to advance)
From level 3 to 4 players need to kill 100 monsters each for level up. This equals 500.000 XP. The node now has 800.000 XP which means it is developed at 80%. Total amount of monsters killed is 32.000 (160 monsters per player).
Now all players are lvl 4. The experience penalty is 10%. Meaning they get 45 XP for every kill instead of 50. Contribution also changes and is now at 22.5XP instead of 25 per monster.
The node needs another 200.000 XP to lvl up. This means another 8.889 monsters have to be killed in order to progress.
Divide that between 200 players and every player has to kill 45 monsters on average. Meaning the node progresses while average player level is 4 and a total of 40.900 monsters on average has been killed.
Now lets assume scenario #2:
Low population server has 50 players within the node.
By the time they reach lvl 2 the node acquires 25.000 XP. (Player count*XP)/2.
By the time they reach lvl 3 the node acquires another 50.000 XP.
By the time they reach lvl 4 the node acquires yet another 125.000 XP and has now in total 200.000 XP or 20% progress. At this point they have killed 8.000 monsters.
XP penalty kicks in. Players again acquire 10% less experience and while at level 4 they still have to kill 35.556 monsters. With previously 8.000 monsters killed their kill prediction now stands at an average 43.556 monsters vs 40.900 that guaranteed node upgrade in the first scenario.
But that's not the end. every player who acquires 5k XP advances to lvl 5. Meaning each player can kill up to 112 monsters before levelling up again. That gives us a total of 5.600 monsters killed.
At lvl 5 total monster kills are at 13.600 and the node XP is increased by 126.000 and is now at 326.000 total. With that in mind they still need 674.000 XP more to advance the node. Yet XP is decreased another time (I'll do it multiplicatively so its less severe) 10% of 45 is 4,5. So every kill now awards 41.5 XP and contributes 20.75 instead of 22.5 XP. Which means to get remaining 674.000 XP players have to kill another 32.482 monsters. So the total estimate is now 13.600 + 32.482 = 46.082.
That's almost 6.000 monsters more than the players in scenario #1. Even if we keep XP decrease at it (19% effective penalty) we can see how much the time between progression is increased. Not mentioning the fact the kills are happening at 1/4 speed.
Lets now put it into hours. Lets assume players kill one monster every 30 seconds on average. In scenario #1 every player has to kill on average 205 monsters which takes 102,5 minutes which is slightly under 2 hours after that time the node evolves.
In scenario #2 every player has to kill 272 monsters before lvl 5 and another 650 afterwards that tallies up to 922 monsters per player or 461 minutes. which is more than 7,5h. The discrepancy would be even larger when trying to level up a node from lvl 1 to 2 as scenario #2 players would be most likely overlevelled once the node has advanced.
Now lets compare scenarios #1 and #2 if the node contribution XP is tied directly to the monster base XP rather than player XP gained.
Scenario #1 there's no big change as after reaching lvl 4 players have to kill 8.000 monsters instead of 8.889 meaning each of them has to kill 5 monsters less on average which reduces node development time by roughly 2,5 minutes.
Scenario #2 however notices a significant increases in XP contribution as having to kill 40.000 monsters total instead of 46.082 decreases amount of monsters to kill per player by 122 which saves them roughly an hour. It also decreases the risk of becoming overlevelled or at least mitigates its effects to some extent.
Please do keep in mind this is just a theory crafting that assumes ideal conditions within both scenarios and all the values given serves as an example.
Cheers glorious community
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