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Dwarven body proportions

ThemcnobodyThemcnobody Member
in General Discussion
A soft (very soft) critique but as I was watching people play Alpha One, I really felt that the dwarves looked like tiny children with beards. Possible solution?? :o

dwarves.jpg

IE made the limbs stockier, and the red circle is the size of the original head for reference. I was also going to comment on the beard not having larger options too but I figure that would be something they'll add down the line.

Really just wanted to get this off my chest rather then make an actual change, but feel free to let me know your thoughts!
✦ Concept Artist who enjoys MMORPG's ✦

Comments

  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You are in good company on here, brother. Not one singe person is in love with the current "Dwarfs" that I am aware of around these parts.

    Many of us are hoping that sliders in character creation will fix Dwarfs. Others just want to see a redesign.

    I just hope that the developers take this issue seriously. Otherwise, they are going to have a whole race that no one wants to play on their hands.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • GnimgorGnimgor Member
    edited August 2021
    Leaving my two cents here.

    I'm hoping the devs allow a body slider to create a more stockier/fatter looking Dünir dwarf and much longer beard to boot. Also hoping on a North UK or Scottish accent would be icing on top and would seal the deal :)

    Cheers
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Gotta represent properly. I prefer the Norwegian accent, but there’s time.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    You are in good company on here, brother. Not one singe person is in love with the current "Dwarfs" that I am aware of around these parts.

    Many of us are hoping that sliders in character creation will fix Dwarfs. Others just want to see a redesign.

    I just hope that the developers take this issue seriously. Otherwise, they are going to have a whole race that no one wants to play on their hands.

    I will point out that while I think the current model is undesirable and not near what I think the average for Dunir should be. I do think it is acceptable for Nikua on their smaller end and hope something /near/ the current is available to them, just as I hope they keep the flip on Nikua but don't care if Dunir doesn't keep it.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Themcnobody wrote: »
    A soft (very soft) critique but as I was watching people play Alpha One, I really felt that the dwarves looked like tiny children with beards. Possible solution?? :o

    dwarves.jpg

    IE made the limbs stockier, and the red circle is the size of the original head for reference. I was also going to comment on the beard not having larger options too but I figure that would be something they'll add down the line.

    Really just wanted to get this off my chest rather then make an actual change, but feel free to let me know your thoughts!

    I would say I believe the largest flaw is that the shoulders aren't significantly wider not the hand proportions. They also need their torso to be a little taller and they need to be slightly wider at the hips but not as wide as their shoulders. This will create an elongated top heavy trapizoid without making their limbs look cartoonish or stealing away from the flexibility in their musculature slider. If their character creator is bdo level you will be able to enbiggen your hands and forearms anyway.

    The reason I think the dwarf is the way it is, is because to do what I described would require the body proportions to be significantly differing than other races. It is yet unknown if that's an art style choice, or done out of convenience. Check out the racial armor thread for an indepth summary on the technical reasons for proportions being the same or different relative to armor.
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    JustVine wrote: »
    I will point out that while I think the current model is undesirable and not near what I think the average for Dunir should be. I do think it is acceptable for Nikua on their smaller end and hope something /near/ the current is available to them, just as I hope they keep the flip on Nikua but don't care if Dunir doesn't keep it.

    Yeah, I just want at least one cool dwarf race in this fantasy setting. I love to see 'em.

    This strange fascination with racial symmetry holds the setting back from having only cool races. Instead of two dwarf races, they could just have dwarf and halfling. Tribal halfling makes way more sense to me then tribal dwarf.

    I just don't think Nikua is cool enough to get many people playing it. I bet it will be the least played race by a lot.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    JustVine wrote: »
    I will point out that while I think the current model is undesirable and not near what I think the average for Dunir should be. I do think it is acceptable for Nikua on their smaller end and hope something /near/ the current is available to them, just as I hope they keep the flip on Nikua but don't care if Dunir doesn't keep it.

    Yeah, I just want at least one cool dwarf race in this fantasy setting. I love to see 'em.

    This strange fascination with racial symmetry holds the setting back from having only cool races. Instead of two dwarf races, they could just have dwarf and halfling. Tribal halfling makes way more sense to me then tribal dwarf.

    I just don't think Nikua is cool enough to get many people playing it. I bet it will be the least played race by a lot.

    I don't think a halfling race would serve me as well as a 'flexible beach dwarf' could. The concept art for Nikua fits that pretty well and it made me very excited for it. I like stockier buff races. Halflings tend to be thinner and more rectangular in silhouette. Closer to human proportions. I percieve dwarves tend to be either squares or top heavy trapezoids and that's closer to what I want for a racial body type. Dunir should be the 'exaggerated' form of that. But I don't want big beefy exaggeratedness that Dunir should be built for. I need the less 'extra' form of it.

    Tl;dr if they switch Nikua to full on halfling body type I am just going to play elf.
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  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2021
    The Nikua seem a bit inspired by wild dwarves (from d&d). A smaller race of dwarves that, you guessed it, live in the wild instead of mountains. Such a race of dwarves also existed in the Tolkien universe.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    @HazardNumberSeven - HeHe, yeah… I still have the monstrous compendium sheets for the dwarf expansion Dragonlance brought to 2nd edition with the Hylar, Neidar, etc. I think of the mountain dwarves compared to the hill dwarves for Dunir v Nikua.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • ShergrimShergrim Member
    we're with u lad, i want my dwarf to look like he'd drink a tavern dry and empty the pantries the way it should be ..the current dwarf style looks like they'd order a water and call it a night.
    on a serious note almost every aspect of their current appearance is in need of a little love, they should be taller, thiccer limbs, bigger gut, and have a beard length that'd be able to touch their knees if you wished.. for those wanting to play a very old and wise dwarf, and much wider shoulders (i saw a picture of a male dwarf in plate armour who was thinner than a human female in robes was at the waist... that is going in the book)
    hopefully this is all able to be changed through sliders and character customization but i've little faith in that.
  • HumblePuffinHumblePuffin Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I had actually assumed the alpha one dwarves were the base point for the Nikua until someone said otherwise. I still agree they need some tweaks but the slightly more slender then I expected, washboard abs build sent my mind to imagining the dwarf I made surfing the waves, spear fishing on the ocean.

    Just from their places of origin I’ve envisioned the Nikua as leaner, surviving off ocean foods and gatherables found near the coast, and the Dunir as stalky, surviving off of fattier meats from raised live stock since the mountains don’t have as much of an opportunity live off the plentiful ocean and gatherables. I also envision them drinking more than the Nikua just to deal with the more depressing(?) I guess conditions found in the mountains, while the Nikua come from the sunny coasts.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If you wanna talk theory crafting, it's because alcohol keeps calories indefinitely. Dunir would largely live off root vegetables, mushrooms, wild game, more seasonal variety, but have to weather changing seasons in their crop lands. They dwell in mountains but they aren't mole people. They have farm and gathering land around the mountains. Alcohol is always an easy way to store excess crops for longer-term periods.

    The Dunir have more reason to make alcohol because they are more likely to have less gathering areas (they burn a lot of wood) and have less land to grow stable variety due to changing seasons and altitude. They are probably grow potatoes, ginger, etc quite well and they are quite nutritious. But you can only do so much with them in terms of preserving them longer than a year other than booze. They don't take to pickling well

    Nikua otoh have a much more stable environment. A lot more access to fruit, fish, monosaturated fat type foods, and more gathering areas for a wider variety. There is just way less incentive to store food.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    They may not burn as much wood as you think if they have steady access to other fuel sources, like coal that they can keep going at all times. This would also limit their dependencies on resources outside mountain cities. I wouldn't limit their alcohol consumption based on what they can craft (though they probably brew a TON), but also on what they can trade for. Dwarves tend to have concentrated economic power because of their ready access to necessary minerals, rare metals, and rare gems. They're not going to need to have apiaries to drink mead.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    They may not burn as much wood as you think if they have steady access to other fuel sources, like coal that they can keep going at all times. This would also limit their dependencies on resources outside mountain cities. I wouldn't limit their alcohol consumption based on what they can craft (though they probably brew a TON), but also on what they can trade for. Dwarves tend to have concentrated economic power because of their ready access to necessary minerals, rare metals, and rare gems. They're not going to need to have apiaries to drink mead.

    Your kind of right about the trees, but potatoes need direct sunlight and charcoal is still important even if you have coal for various industrial chemistry processes. Plus all that coal soot has to go somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if acid rain occured down wind of the mountains.

    To refine that concept. Mountainous regions take a lot more effort to traverse. Yeah food will still be shipped but booze is calories plus entertainment and culture in a dense package. If your traveling back and forth for refined and raw mineral materials you better got good shit to pay up and a lot of it. So spices, alcohol and cloth are the most reasonable trades through rugged terrain.
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    I just hope that the developers take this issue seriously. Otherwise, they are going to have a whole race that no one wants to play on their hands.

    Fortunately dwarves walk on their feet.
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Dwarves need at least 30% more chonk.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    HazardNumberSeven wrote: »
    Dwarves need at least 30% more chonk.

    Ke9X1Cb.png

    Is my PSO2 character chonk enough?
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    HazardNumberSeven wrote: »
    Dwarves need at least 30% more chonk.

    Ke9X1Cb.png

    Is my PSO2 character chonk enough?

    That's too much chonk.
    Yes, I'm fat shaming.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    HazardNumberSeven wrote: »
    That's too much chonk.
    Yes, I'm fat shaming.

    <3
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2021
    Your dwarf has suspiciously pointy ears, @Vhaeyne.

    🤨
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Your dwarf has suspiciously pointy ears, @Vhaeyne.

    🤨

    The increased surface area allows for the unit to be more effectively cooled...
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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