proximity chat

Conrad wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

I'm for VOIP, however! Devs should look for solutions to remedy issues it will bring.

A lot if not most problems in mmos can be solved if effort is put in. VOIP would be great for any sandbox mmo like ashes but the team HAS to work on solving any issues that arise.

They will have VOIP in the game.

Their way of solving the issues this presents is by restricting it to group, raid and guild, as well as potentially the interior of taverns.

Not really much of a solution. They could easily add it to the open world by having an opt in option, off by default.

This would split the games community between those that do use it, and those that don't, creating even bigger issues.

Ramirez

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

I'm for VOIP, however! Devs should look for solutions to remedy issues it will bring.

A lot if not most problems in mmos can be solved if effort is put in. VOIP would be great for any sandbox mmo like ashes but the team HAS to work on solving any issues that arise.

They will have VOIP in the game.

Their way of solving the issues this presents is by restricting it to group, raid and guild, as well as potentially the interior of taverns.

For that you already have discord... VOIP is useful to talk we random players in the world and meet new people, works great on rust, and new world is the first mmorpg to use and at least in my server i have seen any problem, the way they did, you really need to be near the player to listen Voip , world chats and area chat is much more toxic the voip

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

I'm for VOIP, however! Devs should look for solutions to remedy issues it will bring.

A lot if not most problems in mmos can be solved if effort is put in. VOIP would be great for any sandbox mmo like ashes but the team HAS to work on solving any issues that arise.

They will have VOIP in the game.

Their way of solving the issues this presents is by restricting it to group, raid and guild, as well as potentially the interior of taverns.

Not really much of a solution. They could easily add it to the open world by having an opt in option, off by default.

This would split the games community between those that do use it, and those that don't, creating even bigger issues.

What would this split mean? Are you saying people would not play with people because of their VOIP setting. Isn't that a little silly? Can you give some example scenarios?

There are issues with typing to communicate as you basically have to stop playing the game to do it. It's not a good user experience. There are people who don't type to others because of this. Allowing players to communicate by just being next to another is easier and since you don't have to stop controlling your character to do it, i'd say superior. It would increase communication which is great for a game that is about community and working with others.

If Ashes has proximity chat, most likely the people who hate it would just turn it off, so I doubt there would be much of a noticeable split.

New World has proximity chat and in the 30 hours I've played, I've heard maybe 3 conversations.
All random and real world topics that lasted for less than a minute. Might have been a minute total out of 30 hours.
I do see activity in the chat box. I've seen more chat bubbles in the game than instances of proximity chat.

I don't think proximity chat would increase in-game conversation much.

mcstackerson wrote: »

What would this split mean? Are you saying people would not play with people because of their VOIP setting. Isn't that a little silly? Can you give some example scenarios?

There are issues with typing to communicate as you basically have to stop playing the game to do it. It's not a good user experience. There are people who don't type to others because of this. Allowing players to communicate by just being next to another is easier and since you don't have to stop controlling your character to do it, i'd say superior. It would increase communication which is great for a game that is about community and working with others.

Your message shows totally the split...

YOU consider that typing is not playing, for me, communicate is part of playing, so even while i stop controlling character to type message, "i play the game". I communicate already a lot without proximity chat.
YOU consider this other way.

And here come the split... Some people will turn it off, and use text chat, others like you will communicate with voice...
You will close to me, speak, i won't hear you... and there you will have to type. you will also finally consider that communicating with me is a problem for you to enjoy the game. because "you have to type"...

Whatever split is already present.
Some people will use chat, other people will ignore it.
Some people will use Discord, other people will not.
If people really wish to communicate and voice is not possible, they will resort to text chat.
And will either be notified via a Whisper or a Chat Bubble.

Dygz wrote: »

Whatever split is already present.
Some people will use chat, other people will ignore it.
Some people will use Discord, other people will not.
If people really wish to communicate and voice is not possible, they will resort to text chat.
And will either be notified via a Whisper or a Chat Bubble.

There is a big difference for this split between discord and the proximity chat.

Discord does the same work as the voice chat limited to group/raid.
You won't go discord with anyone you see while you travel. In such situation, it is only proximity chat or written chat.

The simple fact there is no proximity chat, it makes the written one as the basic, the default one, people will have to ask the other to join VOIP, else, the natural human tendency from heavy voice user will be to consider voice is the basic one, and be shocked to have to ask... (loved seeing guilds wanting people to be activ on TS/mumble and now discord :') )

Khronus

Dygz wrote: »

If Ashes has proximity chat, most likely the people who hate it would just turn it off, so I doubt there would be much of a noticeable split.

New World has proximity chat and in the 30 hours I've played, I've heard maybe 3 conversations.
All random and real world topics that lasted for less than a minute. Might have been a minute total out of 30 hours.
I do see activity in the chat box. I've seen more chat bubbles in the game than instances of proximity chat.

I don't think proximity chat would increase in-game conversation much.

I see your experience in New World as one that lacks real substance for or against having proximity chat because of a few things. The fact that you heard little communication stems from years and years of shit mmo games coming out promoting anti social gameplay. Some people just don't want to talk in game anymore and those who do will be cancer (sometimes). I logged into New World and played for maybe an hour. I tried to speak to seven different people and none of them responded. Not once. Like.....as if they had music blaring or were just there to solo. Also it is beta and there is no real reason to interact. World chat was roaring and much of it was anti Ashes of Creation ranting for some reason. I truly didn't understand it but I stayed silent knowing which one is truly superior : ).

Once the game comes out, there will be trash talking, and spam, and dog whistles blaring into the mic. There will absolutely be racist and toxic comments and it will be horrible. The fact that I would have to turn off the chat to avoid hearing this is utter bullshit. The fact that their moderators will either be overwhelmed with reports or simply not care is also ridiculous. I like the current direction that Intrepid is working on with proximity chat in groups/raids and possibly taverns. This is a good trade off as long as I get to boot the town drunk off my premises when needed.

As a guild leader I REALLY hope proximity chat doesn't turn me into an asshole and force me to hush people in order to organize and think straight. I'm not a big fan of bossing people around other than to organize and have fun but it's impossible with 30 people all talking over each other. Imagine being in town and having to turn off proximity chat every time you get to town because of how annoying the players are there even when not trying to be annoying. It would get old very fast.

But, that's a key part of my point.
Even in New World, which is new enough that you might expect people to ask questions about where things are or how things work, that doesn't happen via proximity chat.
I'm pretty sure that all of the proximity chat I caught was happening due to something like Discord.
Of course... I'm gonna say it again... New World is not an RPG. So, we shouldn't be expecting people to roleplay.

I expect people to be communicating and roleplaying quite a bit in Ashes.
Especially because the world is dynamic and... even discussing who won the Castle Siege or how the taxes are now that Atama became the Mayor of Drythorne acts as RP.
But, I still expect most of that to occur either through text chat or through "Discord".
I expect taverns to have 30+ people.

Steven says the in-game voice-chat is not proximity-based, so...should be fine.
Private voice chat appears to be available in taverns, but it's opt in and we seem to be able to control who we can hear and who we can't so... it should be fine.

Thanks for the prompt to do a bit more research, Khronus.

Ramirez wrote: »

For that you already have discord... VOIP is useful to talk we random players in the world and meet new people, works great on rust, and new world is the first mmorpg to use and at least in my server i have seen any problem, the way they did, you really need to be near the player to listen Voip , world chats and area chat is much more toxic the voip

I'm not about to get in to Discord with some random player I just met and formed a group with.

I may, however, join voice chat with them in game.

That is where in game voice has functionality that Discord does not.

mcstackerson wrote: »

What would this split mean?

Lets assume I have had one two many cases of running past people in game and hearing their unattended baby crying because they are too focused on the game to look after it, or hearing some kids parent yelling at them, or hearing the crackle of someone with a near broken mic, or hearing people having (or seeming to be having) sex, or hearing someones dog barking painfully close to the mic (all things I have personally experienced).

Right, so it is understandable there are reasons to want to turn this off.

Now, imagine you are using it, and trying to communicate with me. I don't respond because I can't hear you.

If you attempted to communicate with me via regular text chat, all would be well.

Adding in a form of communication to the game that many, many players have very, very good reasons for outright turning off is simply not good for inter-player communication.

Sure, some people turn off various aspects of text chat, but as there are far fewer actual good reasons for this, it is far less common.

mcstackerson

Aerlana wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

What would this split mean? Are you saying people would not play with people because of their VOIP setting. Isn't that a little silly? Can you give some example scenarios?

There are issues with typing to communicate as you basically have to stop playing the game to do it. It's not a good user experience. There are people who don't type to others because of this. Allowing players to communicate by just being next to another is easier and since you don't have to stop controlling your character to do it, i'd say superior. It would increase communication which is great for a game that is about community and working with others.

Your message shows totally the split...

YOU consider that typing is not playing, for me, communicate is part of playing, so even while i stop controlling character to type message, "i play the game". I communicate already a lot without proximity chat.
YOU consider this other way.

And here come the split... Some people will turn it off, and use text chat, others like you will communicate with voice...
You will close to me, speak, i won't hear you... and there you will have to type. you will also finally consider that communicating with me is a problem for you to enjoy the game. because "you have to type"...

Can you play your character while typing? No, the keyboard that is used to type out messages is also used to control your character so you can't.

Just because you might be used to it doesn't change this fact. To type, you must stop controlling your character. In a sense, you must stop playing. Please apply what you have to do to type to any other game you have played and you would understand.

If text was a part of the interface then i'd would assume i could still engage with it the same as i always have if it felt necessary.

You aren't every person i'm talking to or who wants to talk to me. If you choose to communicate through typing, then cool but to force everyone to do the same is inhibiting communication.

Noaani wrote: »

Ramirez wrote: »

For that you already have discord... VOIP is useful to talk we random players in the world and meet new people, works great on rust, and new world is the first mmorpg to use and at least in my server i have seen any problem, the way they did, you really need to be near the player to listen Voip , world chats and area chat is much more toxic the voip

I'm not about to get in to Discord with some random player I just met and formed a group with.

I may, however, join voice chat with them in game.

That is where in game voice has functionality that Discord does not.

mcstackerson wrote: »

What would this split mean?

Lets assume I have had one two many cases of running past people in game and hearing their unattended baby crying because they are too focused on the game to look after it, or hearing some kids parent yelling at them, or hearing the crackle of someone with a near broken mic, or hearing people having (or seeming to be having) sex, or hearing someones dog barking painfully close to the mic (all things I have personally experienced).

Right, so it is understandable there are reasons to want to turn this off.

Now, imagine you are using it, and trying to communicate with me. I don't respond because I can't hear you.

If you attempted to communicate with me via regular text chat, all would be well.

Adding in a form of communication to the game that many, many players have very, very good reasons for outright turning off is simply not good for inter-player communication.

Sure, some people turn off various aspects of text chat, but as there are far fewer actual good reasons for this, it is far less common.

Now imagine there is a beautiful button, just one button, that allows you to mute prox chat so you don't have to hear. Here is the great part, you can press it again and it does opposite and unmutes it.

On top of that, there is a in game visual that shows someone is talking with prox chat so if you see someone near you and it looks like they might be trying to talk to you, you have the option to press that same button that you used to mute everyone and hear what they have to say.

Fucking crazy technology.

Here is the craziest part, you never have to unmute it but maybe me and others do and find it a convenient way to communicate. At anytime, you can press that one, easy button to join the fun but you don't have to as your text messages will still appear to us in our chat boxes.

I play while i type in chat. I said it, i say it, i will say it.

i never said i was controlling my character while typing. Read again the message, i totally said "while i stop controlling my character to type message, i play the game"
For me, playing a game is not limited to "controll my character"

For all other part of your message, so you admit that you won't discriminate people on the fact they use or not proximity chat? Maybe you are a good guy, but it would be a fool to consider people to stick to this... Most people considering "proximity chat is the best way to enjoy games" will just discriminate those who will say "no" when invited to activate proximity chat... Nothing about seeing furture, just reading the past.

Also, why should i have to unmute people to hear them if i just don't want hear anyvoice right now ? This is a part from your message that matters me, you don't want to be forced to type, but you think people have to hear the voice of the other anytime... What would you do if you are trying to share your cute voice to me, and i say "if you want to speak to me, just type" ?

And i pass about people who doesn't use their mic in 1001 toxic ways we all know, but have a bad microphone, or all kind of reason making them hard to understand... Text chat get this good side : no problem to understand anyone you speak with.

Enigmatic Sage

could have a button or a few small ones on the UI that toggle proximity chat on and off for quick viability as it seems proximity chat is probably coming to the game.

Mute all button proximity chat
public mute/unmute
group proximity mute/unmute
guild proximity mute/unmute.

Not entirely sure their design for proximity chat limitations and options.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

could have a button or a few small ones on the UI that toggle proximity chat on and off for quick viability as it seems proximity chat is probably coming to the game.

Mute all button proximity chat
public mute/unmute
group proximity mute/unmute
guild proximity mute/unmute.

Not entirely sure their design for proximity chat limitations and options.

There will be VOIP for group, raid, guild, and tavern.

Not for open world area (outside of tavern)

And sure there will be way to mute even in tavern...

For raid, the raid leader will have some kind of moderator power on the voice chat of his raid

This is what we have as information for now :
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Voice_communications

mcstackerson wrote: »

Now imagine there is a beautiful button, just one button, that allows you to mute prox chat so you don't have to hear. Here is the great part, you can press it again and it does opposite and unmutes it.

Yeah, but most people are just going to turn it off.

Adding an icon for if someone is using prox chat is just adding more screen clutter.

In any situation in which prox chat would be used (ie, not in a group, raid or guild situation) there is no inherent need for voice chat. Text is sufficient.

Adding voice chat is just adding layers upon layers of needlessness (mute buttons, icons etc) for no actual functional gain. If you are running around people you don't know and want to communicate, there is a non-intrusive method for doing so that most people will leave on.

Enigmatic Sage

Aerlana wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

could have a button or a few small ones on the UI that toggle proximity chat on and off for quick viability as it seems proximity chat is probably coming to the game.

Mute all button proximity chat
public mute/unmute
group proximity mute/unmute
guild proximity mute/unmute.

Not entirely sure their design for proximity chat limitations and options.

There will be VOIP for group, raid, guild, and tavern.

Not for open world area (outside of tavern)

And sure there will be way to mute even in tavern...

For raid, the raid leader will have some kind of moderator power on the voice chat of his raid

Interesting.
Pretty much the gold standard that goes without saying.

Things could get quite toxic in battle with proximity chat especially if someone says some very offensive things and you have to figure out who said it so you can report them.

So many pros and cons with proximity chat especially with mmo's.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

So many pros and cons with proximity chat especially with mmo's.

Which is why it is easier to not have proximity chat, but include chat for groups and such.

You eliminate most of the negatives, and from the perspective of most players, you are not introducing any cons.