Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options
The Archetype/Class System In Ashes of Creation - How Could It Work?
Puck_Goodfellow
Member
There's very little revealed for the archetype/class system other than that the primary archetype cannot be changed and the secondary can be changed with a cost. (Nothing given yet on it and it's subject to change.) The other thing revealed is that the secondary archetype modifies the primary's abilities.
The given examples were of modifying a Fighter's Rush ability but just to expand on it you could imagine modifying a Mage's teleport spell such as creating an elemental explosion at both points or creating a wall at both points.
Obviously the origin of such a system comes from the multiclass systems found in tabletop games such as Dungeons and Dragons of which was eventually born subclasses for which some people multiclass with as well. (The latter is usually up to the Dungeon Master though.)
From what I've been able to find there are existing games that utilize this type of game design. Nothing quite the same as what's been stated for AoC but at least using the idea of multiclassing.
Just a quick aside some interesting fictional MMOs use multiclassing systems such as Overlord or Infinite Dendrogram with the latter having a lot more mechanics explained in the book.
So for games outside of MMOs I've really only been able to find one game that really explored it and that is Grim Dawn. I haven't played it yet but it's really similar to looking as the class matrix of AoC as you can see here. (I've had to use an archive page because the regular page is broken right now. Probably from Fandom migrating it to their new system. Could be fixed by now though.)
As can be seen you pick two different archetypes that combine into a class just like AoC except that in AoC you can pick the same archetype twice. I really haven't seen any MMO try this though as each is a bit different.
Now getting into MMOs Guild Wars 1 is a good example as it feels like AoC is trying to take that system and make it better. I've never played GW1 but, from what I've researched, like AoC the most important thing to pick is your primary class as you can't change it. Although in GW1 it's called a profession.
Another approach I've seen is in a more skill focused system such as Asheron's Call and its spiritual successor Project Gorgon. Now I've only been able to try out the latter so I'll just explain the system briefly. In the skill system you have combat skills such as Sword, Ice Magic or Beast Taming. You can choose two combat skills such as Ice Magic/Beast Taming where you can throw ice at monsters while your bear tanks for you.
Obviously AoC is doing more GW1 rather than Asheron's Call and Project Gorgon but I wanted to give an example that the design philosophy of multiclassing can have vastly different systems created with different pros, cons and tradeoffs whether an integrated system or a free form one.
The integrated system is closer to the subclass system, which I mentioned earlier was born from multiclassing, and the free form system more closely resembles what multiclassing in tabletop games can be like.
There is a caveat to both these systems or for any game, but especially MMOs, that seeks to use a multiclassing system in any shape or form and that it's a nightmare to balance around. It's why you see Guild Wars 2 drop the system they created in Guild Wars 1.
Now we won't be seeing the secondary class system for AoC till Alpha-2 which probably won't be out till the second half of next year (2022) but I do hope we get some test footage or a design document released in a monthly announcement before then. Since Steve keeps calling it an augment system it makes me wonder if it will apply to weapons, armor and equipment and not just skills or passives but we'll have to see.
Obviously the basic combat system is still being worked on so I don't expect any test footage till that's complete.
To me the AoC goal of a GW1 class system but better/different is pretty much on par if not more ambitious/difficult than the node system that's been pioneered in this game. The node system though has been tested and is working as intended so hopefully the class system goes just as well.
I suppose I haven't given much on how the class/augment system could work but mostly just examples of multiclassing in video games. To be brief, as this is already pretty long, just look into the Guild Wars 1 class system and you'll get a pretty good idea of it as AoC seems to plan to be a derivative of it.
Explaining it in detail beyond the brief summary I gave would give another essay plus I never played it so it would probably be best if you simply look it up yourself or hopefully someone who has played GW1 could summarize it.
Hope you enjoyed my thoughts on the matter and I look forward to yours if you so choose to comment.
The given examples were of modifying a Fighter's Rush ability but just to expand on it you could imagine modifying a Mage's teleport spell such as creating an elemental explosion at both points or creating a wall at both points.
Obviously the origin of such a system comes from the multiclass systems found in tabletop games such as Dungeons and Dragons of which was eventually born subclasses for which some people multiclass with as well. (The latter is usually up to the Dungeon Master though.)
From what I've been able to find there are existing games that utilize this type of game design. Nothing quite the same as what's been stated for AoC but at least using the idea of multiclassing.
Just a quick aside some interesting fictional MMOs use multiclassing systems such as Overlord or Infinite Dendrogram with the latter having a lot more mechanics explained in the book.
So for games outside of MMOs I've really only been able to find one game that really explored it and that is Grim Dawn. I haven't played it yet but it's really similar to looking as the class matrix of AoC as you can see here. (I've had to use an archive page because the regular page is broken right now. Probably from Fandom migrating it to their new system. Could be fixed by now though.)
As can be seen you pick two different archetypes that combine into a class just like AoC except that in AoC you can pick the same archetype twice. I really haven't seen any MMO try this though as each is a bit different.
Now getting into MMOs Guild Wars 1 is a good example as it feels like AoC is trying to take that system and make it better. I've never played GW1 but, from what I've researched, like AoC the most important thing to pick is your primary class as you can't change it. Although in GW1 it's called a profession.
Another approach I've seen is in a more skill focused system such as Asheron's Call and its spiritual successor Project Gorgon. Now I've only been able to try out the latter so I'll just explain the system briefly. In the skill system you have combat skills such as Sword, Ice Magic or Beast Taming. You can choose two combat skills such as Ice Magic/Beast Taming where you can throw ice at monsters while your bear tanks for you.
Obviously AoC is doing more GW1 rather than Asheron's Call and Project Gorgon but I wanted to give an example that the design philosophy of multiclassing can have vastly different systems created with different pros, cons and tradeoffs whether an integrated system or a free form one.
The integrated system is closer to the subclass system, which I mentioned earlier was born from multiclassing, and the free form system more closely resembles what multiclassing in tabletop games can be like.
There is a caveat to both these systems or for any game, but especially MMOs, that seeks to use a multiclassing system in any shape or form and that it's a nightmare to balance around. It's why you see Guild Wars 2 drop the system they created in Guild Wars 1.
Now we won't be seeing the secondary class system for AoC till Alpha-2 which probably won't be out till the second half of next year (2022) but I do hope we get some test footage or a design document released in a monthly announcement before then. Since Steve keeps calling it an augment system it makes me wonder if it will apply to weapons, armor and equipment and not just skills or passives but we'll have to see.
Obviously the basic combat system is still being worked on so I don't expect any test footage till that's complete.
To me the AoC goal of a GW1 class system but better/different is pretty much on par if not more ambitious/difficult than the node system that's been pioneered in this game. The node system though has been tested and is working as intended so hopefully the class system goes just as well.
I suppose I haven't given much on how the class/augment system could work but mostly just examples of multiclassing in video games. To be brief, as this is already pretty long, just look into the Guild Wars 1 class system and you'll get a pretty good idea of it as AoC seems to plan to be a derivative of it.
Explaining it in detail beyond the brief summary I gave would give another essay plus I never played it so it would probably be best if you simply look it up yourself or hopefully someone who has played GW1 could summarize it.
Hope you enjoyed my thoughts on the matter and I look forward to yours if you so choose to comment.
1
Comments
Augments are not applied to Weapon Skills.
Gear will have enchantments.
I doubt we will see much about augments until just before they become available for Alpha Two.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes