How Streamers Impact Game Balance/Performance

I recently came across this article on Den of Geek about how the participation of streamers in the New World beta created unexpected gameplay issues. Specifically, the article talks about how streamers (1) warped server-wide PvP mechanics like territory control due to their follower base, and (2) created large congregations of players that ended up impacting server stability. There are other issues discussed as well, and I found it to be a fascinating set of problems to have. I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on it, as I would think Ashes of Creation could have similar issues (though you could arguably debate whether the former is an issue at all). Article is linked below.
https://www.denofgeek.com/games/new-world-amazon-mmo-streamer-support-controversy-biggest-problems/

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Aerlana

about the PvP in new world.
This is a RvRvR system : 3 faction, and they all fight for the same territories.
Faction are only a choice of "what color i will support" it is not like on DAoC where each faction had identity and were not the same.
Also, it seems they forgot to add a system to enforce a faction balance. So you can have one faction with 60% of server population... (maybe i mistake).

So when a big streamer gets in, he is followed by a bunch of people going in the same server than him to play with him.
When this big streamer chose a faction... the same people go on the same faction than him...

About server stability : it is not really streamer problem. Asmongold generates sometime a high number of people. and servers dont die to it. Be it on wow or FFXIV. Also, the streamers is a good way to have a big numbers of player in the same area, and a good way in beta to stress test your server

New world is build for streamer. it is not a game that fit well for streaming, it is a game build FOR the streamer.
But they didn't think about all impact the streamer and its follower can create on the game... Just the fact that while a big streamer is log in, you can see a big number of character doing a common thing directed by a streamer. And for the RvR, aside of the unbalance of faction pop, it is a bunch of character that can totally swarm an area killing anyone from another faction... This was previously what big guilds could do, but in a more limitated potential.

Creating a game is more than just " would be nice a game where player can [...]"
then you have to prevent players to abuse systems. Some things are quite basic (a system to enforce a kind of balance between faction pop, like blocking to join a faction which is already at X% of total pop) Some needs to think what kind of bad behaviour people can do (and so comes the "red player" system from L2 or AoC ("corruption")

Zeric

I think it would be hilarious to force all the streamers onto a single server and watch the mayhem.
I also wish it was possible to have 1 or 2 servers be streamer restricted so that "normal" game flow would be possible, but I do understand how that either would not be possible or even if it was it would be against the spirit of things.

Vhaeyne

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Not to be perverted, but because someone put the idea in my head that streamers can't play X-rated games on twitch, and it is a sensible solution to the streamer problem.

Right now, Mortal Online 2 and Conan Exiles are the only games I know of that could possibly make servers where nudity is enforced instead of optional. Something like this would make streamer free servers a reality.

I am of course half joking here, but it would be an easy and elegant solution.

JamesSunderland

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Not to be perverted, but because someone put the idea in my head that streamers can't play X-rated games on twitch, and it is a sensible solution to the streamer problem.

Right now, Mortal Online 2 and Conan Exiles are the only games I know of that could possibly make servers where nudity is enforced instead of optional. Something like this would make streamer free servers a reality.

I am of course half joking here, but it would be an easy and elegant solution.

Unironically would work! LMAO
But yeah most likely not the way intrepid would handle it, i'm really interested on what kind of impact streamers can cause in a AoC server later on, when we get bigger tests like on Beta.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Streamers are the one good reason I can see for allowing proximity chat.

If they come close to you, blast them with some popular song from a company that is determined to protect their copywrite, and watch the streamer run.

Vhaeyne

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Unironically would work! LMAO
But yeah most likely not the way intrepid would handle it, i'm really interested on what kind of impact streamers can cause in a AoC server later on, when we get bigger tests like on Beta.

I don't see them going that route as well.

I mean, they could just police it well. Have a few ''non-streamer" servers where the server name is mandatory in the top right of the screen at all times. Also, make it a reportable/actionable offense to stream on these servers.

I have nothing personally against streamers. I just understand that streamers can have influence that change the dynamics of entire servers, and I feel that it should be 100% optional to play on a server with or without streamers. Personally, I would take the hit to my freedom of having my server name on the screen and having it be a reportable offense for a streamer free experience.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Streamers are the one good reason I can see for allowing proximity chat.

If they come close to you, blast them with some popular song from a company that is determined to protect their copywrite, and watch the streamer run.

They would just have proximity chat muted if that was the case.

JamesSunderland

Vhaeyne wrote: »

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Unironically would work! LMAO
But yeah most likely not the way intrepid would handle it, i'm really interested on what kind of impact streamers can cause in a AoC server later on, when we get bigger tests like on Beta.

I don't see them going that route as well.

I mean, they could just police it well. Have a few ''non-streamer" servers where the server name is mandatory in the top right of the screen at all times. Also, make it a reportable/actionable offense to stream on these servers.

I have nothing personally against streamers. I just understand that streamers can have influence that change the dynamics of entire servers, and I feel that it should be 100% optional to play on a server with or without streamers. Personally, I would take the hit to my freedom of having my server name on the screen and having it be a reportable offense for a streamer free experience.

I don't think a complete segregation of Non-streamers and streamers servers is a good idea unless proven that the disruption caused by big streamers on a AoC server is "destructive" enough to warrant such separation.

Vhaeyne

JamesSunderland wrote: »

I don't think a complete segregation of Non-streamers and streamers servers is a good idea unless proven that the disruption caused by big streamers on a AoC server is "destructive" enough to warrant such separation.

You can call it segregation, but I feel that the word vilifies what I am asking for. Streamers hold all the power in the current situation. They choose to play on a server, and their hordes of followers come and ruin the game. The average player has no real say in the matter. The game can go from being smooth and balanced to unplayable overnight. Ashes will not and should not have server transfers. So normal players will just get trapped for no reason. Forced to re-roll or quit (This happened to many in classic WOW).

From the prospective of the average prior players on Asmongolds FFXIV server. They have been hit with needlessly long log-in ques. Random areas of the game being inaccessible at times. Wild price increases on the AH. Getting kicked from the server for idling. The impossibility of having a new friend start playing on their server for the foreseeable future. This is all very destructive, and it is only the PvE side of things.

Ashes is going to be an open-world game with politics and PvP in addition to the above problems from FFXIV. One streamer would be able to bring a server to its knees. It is just not something I want to deal with, and it is also not something that, I feel, is in the intended spirit of how MMOs are meant to be played.

Being able to opt-in to a server where streaming is not allowed to me would be the best solution. Even if it was only a few servers per region.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Streamers are the one good reason I can see for allowing proximity chat.

If they come close to you, blast them with some popular song from a company that is determined to protect their copywrite, and watch the streamer run.

They would just have proximity chat muted if that was the case.

While true, we all know that some of them will have it on some of the time.

They would have to have group and raid voice chat off as well, not just proximity.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Streamers are the one good reason I can see for allowing proximity chat.

If they come close to you, blast them with some popular song from a company that is determined to protect their copywrite, and watch the streamer run.

They would just have proximity chat muted if that was the case.

While true, we all know that some of them will have it on some of the time.

They would have to have group and raid voice chat off as well, not just proximity.

Easy to solve issue for streamers. You can have discords audio in your ears, but not present on stream. You can also have multiple instances of discord with multiple accounts. Smart streamers may have a private account and a public account. Also, well controlled privileges on who can talk in discord.

daveywavey

Maybe we just need to target all the streaming sites until we crash them. No streaming, no streamers.

Vhaeyne

daveywavey wrote: »

Maybe we just need to target all the streaming sites until we crash them. No streaming, no streamers.

Are you suggesting we... uh... kill the batman?

Ramirez

rockandrolljew wrote: »

I recently came across this article on Den of Geek about how the participation of streamers in the New World beta created unexpected gameplay issues. Specifically, the article talks about how streamers (1) warped server-wide PvP mechanics like territory control due to their follower base, and (2) created large congregations of players that ended up impacting server stability. There are other issues discussed as well, and I found it to be a fascinating set of problems to have. I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on it, as I would think Ashes of Creation could have similar issues (though you could arguably debate whether the former is an issue at all). Article is linked below.
https://www.denofgeek.com/games/new-world-amazon-mmo-streamer-support-controversy-biggest-problems/

New world isn't example for territory system, is the worst and pointless system i ever seen compared to other pvx/sandbox mmorpg, and server capacity for new world is less then 2k... Imagine Asmon and his minions in games like albion, eve, lineage 2, they would be completly deleted

Merek

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am once again calling for X-rated servers.

Not to be perverted, but because someone put the idea in my head that streamers can't play X-rated games on twitch, and it is a sensible solution to the streamer problem.

Right now, Mortal Online 2 and Conan Exiles are the only games I know of that could possibly make servers where nudity is enforced instead of optional. Something like this would make streamer free servers a reality.

I am of course half joking here, but it would be an easy and elegant solution.

I agree. Also, I don't care if you want to stream the game, I do care when it effects how I can act or play. Can't wait for the first wave of permanent bans for spawn camping [insert streamer].

JamesSunderland

Vhaeyne wrote: »

JamesSunderland wrote: »

I don't think a complete segregation of Non-streamers and streamers servers is a good idea unless proven that the disruption caused by big streamers on a AoC server is "destructive" enough to warrant such separation.

You can call it segregation, but I feel that the word vilifies what I am asking for. Streamers hold all the power in the current situation. They choose to play on a server, and their hordes of followers come and ruin the game. The average player has no real say in the matter. The game can go from being smooth and balanced to unplayable overnight. Ashes will not and should not have server transfers. So normal players will just get trapped for no reason. Forced to re-roll or quit (This happened to many in classic WOW).

From the prospective of the average prior players on Asmongolds FFXIV server. They have been hit with needlessly long log-in ques. Random areas of the game being inaccessible at times. Wild price increases on the AH. Getting kicked from the server for idling. The impossibility of having a new friend start playing on their server for the foreseeable future. This is all very destructive, and it is only the PvE side of things.

Ashes is going to be an open-world game with politics and PvP in addition to the above problems from FFXIV. One streamer would be able to bring a server to its knees. It is just not something I want to deal with, and it is also not something that, I feel, is in the intended spirit of how MMOs are meant to be played.

Being able to opt-in to a server where streaming is not allowed to me would be the best solution. Even if it was only a few servers per region.

I understand the desire for a streamer-free server taking in consideration all the bad effects caused by their minions invasion, specially in the example you gave of asmongold in FFXIV a pve focused game where there is really nothing you can do stop them or to take advantage of them.

The thing is, as @Ramirez stated above, there are games(Albion, eve and lineage 2) where streamers and their minions would get crushed by the server community like sitting ducks, forcing the streamer into less competitive servers.

The thing is, i don't know yet if AoC will be the type of game where this will be possible(even tho i currently thing it will because of it's open world pvp nature + exp loss and material drop on death), thats why i desire to see mr streamers such as asmongold and his legion on later on bigger tests to see how this plays out.

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