McShave wrote: » Maybe this can be the same for your summoner/ tank, where your pet can tank some stuff but then also be effective in other situations.
Dygz wrote: » It's very likely that there will be a Threat augment School for Tank. And very likely a Damage Mitigation augment School.
Hurtmei wrote: » You will be able to tank through dodging, lifesteal, and some other things i forgot. Not just meatshielding
Dygz wrote: » Why would Threat be mandatory but Damage Mitigation would not be mandatory? Threat will likely be an added effect of the Tank Secondary Archetype similar to how Elemental (Fire) is an augment School for the Mage Secondary Archetype.
SirChancelot11 wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Why would Threat be mandatory but Damage Mitigation would not be mandatory? Threat will likely be an added effect of the Tank Secondary Archetype similar to how Elemental (Fire) is an augment School for the Mage Secondary Archetype. Ok you're talking about it just as a tree for a secondary augment, I'll buy that... I thought you were talking about it for primary tank archetype and that sounded redundant Because every tank needs to generate threat to do its job. Like I said, I think that's why 'this ability generates threat' is just built into what they already have... But mitigation wouldn't be mandatory, it has been stated there are different kinds of tanking. Think of something like a DK in WoW, minimal mitigation compared to the others because he wants to take damage for bigger selfheals. Or the monks stagger mechanic. Not every tank has/ wants "just take less damage from a hit" I guess you would want to scale how much threat you have with tank as a secondary archetype, maybe you just wanted to a beefy fighter/tank... But didn't want to fill the tank role. But if the system is set up like that, there really isn't anything stopping them from making it to where X/tanks could fill the tank role in a party. If I'm a summoner or rogue or whatever and I dump all my points into threat and mitigation as well as focus my stats for defense and health... All the tools would be there to be a main tank.
Azherae wrote: » Not all. Tank main Archetype mitigation abilities could still significantly surpass all other Archetypes, or something else about their class design might stop them from being as effective. Rogues might have most of their big damage abilities based on 'not being directly in front of the enemy' with insufficient ability to generate Threat when tanking. Summoners might have no way to absorb Threat from a summon, but not have as many ways as a Tank to have a Summon that can consistently mitigate damage at the same level. Apostles are even more complicated, because even if they build exactly like a Tank, they don't have Ultimate Defense (and unlike some other classes, not much like it) and would rely on 'absorbing' Threat whenever the mob hits someone else. I'm personally very familiar with 'the conditions under which tanking like this fails', and they're nontrivial. Fighters would probably get the closest, but even they are likely to be 'gap closers' and gap closing moves would probably be balanced by just doing less damage. So sure, all the tools would be there to main tank some of the time. If that's all you want, they'd have to work hard to make that terrible.
SirChancelot11 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Not all. Tank main Archetype mitigation abilities could still significantly surpass all other Archetypes, or something else about their class design might stop them from being as effective. Rogues might have most of their big damage abilities based on 'not being directly in front of the enemy' with insufficient ability to generate Threat when tanking. Summoners might have no way to absorb Threat from a summon, but not have as many ways as a Tank to have a Summon that can consistently mitigate damage at the same level. Apostles are even more complicated, because even if they build exactly like a Tank, they don't have Ultimate Defense (and unlike some other classes, not much like it) and would rely on 'absorbing' Threat whenever the mob hits someone else. I'm personally very familiar with 'the conditions under which tanking like this fails', and they're nontrivial. Fighters would probably get the closest, but even they are likely to be 'gap closers' and gap closing moves would probably be balanced by just doing less damage. So sure, all the tools would be there to main tank some of the time. If that's all you want, they'd have to work hard to make that terrible. Ok So if you're trying to main tank with rogue/tank, going all in on tank specs, stats, augments etc... It's all possible. Yes they would lose damage output from positional modifiers or whatever, but you're trying to fill the role of tank not damage dealer. You wouldn't have the mitigation of heavy armor or shield, but you could lean more into evasion and dodge. Reducing 30% of damage or dodging 30% of hits is the same effect'ish in terms of survivability. Could even add mechanics of extra avoidance after a dodge roll or whatever (kinda of like the dodge effects added in GW2) And you're right they would not have "ultimate defense" but could have an ability something like shadowdance instead of shadow stepping around and stabbing a lot as a dps version, it could do way less damage and give them a huge dodge/avoidance buff for the same amount of time as ultimate defense... And as I wrote above a summoner/tank I wouldn't want the threat on me, I would want it on my bugs. I think it would be doable...
SirChancelot11 wrote: » Ok So if you're trying to main tank with rogue/tank, going all in on tank specs, stats, augments etc... It's all possible. Yes they would lose damage output from positional modifiers or whatever, but you're trying to fill the role of tank not damage dealer. You wouldn't have the mitigation of heavy armor or shield, but you could lean more into evasion and dodge. Reducing 30% of damage or dodging 30% of hits is the same effect'ish in terms of survivability. Could even add mechanics of extra avoidance after a dodge roll or whatever (kinda of like the dodge effects added in GW2) And you're right they would not have "ultimate defense" but could have an ability something like shadowdance instead of shadow stepping around and stabbing a lot as a dps version, it could do way less damage and give them a huge dodge/avoidance buff for the same amount of time as ultimate defense... And as I wrote above a summoner/tank I wouldn't want the threat on me, I would want it on my bugs. I think it would be doable...
Azherae wrote: » Of course it's doable. Ninjas tank in FFXI. 'Will Ashes do it' is the question, and their answer was basically 'no', and technically 'probably not', but again, it depends on what you're trying to tank.
