Out of the box ideas about "auto attacks"

MrPockets

Reading through some of the feedback about the split-body/root motion auto attacks got me thinking about the concept of auto-attacks as a whole.

Currently in the MMORPG genera, the standard practice is to give players the most basic of filler damage, known as "auto-attacks". This is usually an auto cast ability or in AoC's case simply holding down a button or mashing it.

Here is my conversation topic: Are auto attacks even necessary?

Could more in depth/meaningful gameplay be obtained by using short skill CDs instead? Maybe there is a skill combo system akin to FF14, where certain skills interact with others in a 'combo-y' fashion. If some of these skills also have root motions with interesting movement options - it might be a compromise between the free motion/root motion debate going on now.

Maybe players have a second or 2 between skills where they can freely move (or maybe some basic skills have free motion). But each skill interaction is more important (ie: if skill A landed, then the skill B has an added effect)

AoC has already taken 1 step in this direction by having players mash/hold a button for attacks...but is it worth exploring what that NEXT step might look like?

Am I alone in not being a huge fan of the "hack and slash" chaotic feeling that AoC combat is now? I know that some of the players geared toward tab-targeting like the more controlled and 'strategic' feel it provides. Do the auto attacks in their current state remove that for tab targeting controls?

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm curious what others think about this topic. =]
More questions:
- Are auto attacks engaging gameplay for you?
- Is this form of auto attack a necessary evil for familiarity's sake?
- Should the 'hold button' mechanic be regressed further to a toggle? (ie: GW2) (asking this because some players have expressed concern with free movement and having to hold down Q at the same time)

mcstackerson

Alone, no, auto attacks aren't engaging, at least when they are as simple as we have them. That said, most ability alone aren't engaging. Auto attacks are just a piece of the puzzle.

Our weapon attacks have their own progression system, instead of them going in the direction of something that we turn on and forget about, i'd prefer they go the other way and add more purpose to our attacks.

What class and level were you? At higher levels, at least as a tank, you have a decent number of skills to use. There isn't really a rotation but you still aren't just spamming auto attacks.

truelyyy

tbh without seeing what it's like a level 50 and weapon skill tree cant really see how the weapon attacks will play out yet - alpha 2 for this I think

MrPockets

mcstackerson wrote: »

Alone, no, auto attacks aren't engaging, at least when they are as simple as we have them. That said, most ability alone aren't engaging. Auto attacks are just a piece of the puzzle.

Our weapon attacks have their own progression system, instead of them going in the direction of something that we turn on and forget about, i'd prefer they go the other way and add more purpose to our attacks.

Yea, this is what I'm getting at with the root motion vs split body debate. Does removing root motion from our attacks push the needle more towards "something that we turn on and forget about"? My gut says yes.

mcstackerson wrote: »

What class and level were you? At higher levels, at least as a tank, you have a decent number of skills to use. There isn't really a rotation but you still aren't just spamming auto attacks.

I've played all the classes to around level 5, but I mostly played a cleric (got to lvl 9ish). I also played a tank at 15 in one of the early siege tests.

But this is also something to think about...if we are already not spamming auto attacks once we unlock enough skills...what is the purpose? I agree that our weapon attacks SHOULD be meaningful. There are a number of players who want to be able to auto attack AND cast skills freely at anytime (ie: continue to hold Q while activating a skill), and I'm worried that the combat may be moving in the directory of the "typical WoW combat" but with an action camera option.

Overall, this post is just meant to get people thinking/talking about innovating the 'standard' MMO combat.

HumblePuffin

I think one aspect of this would be proper tuning of mana. If TTK is low enough and your able to kill something by just spamming all your spells you don’t have much of a reason to auto attack.

Personally I really like the tome auto attacks. They feel good to cast and hit.

As far as making it more interesting tho, I think the combos of them shouldn’t have to be performed all at once. Say you go to attack a mob. You press your auto attack ability and it starts a timer where you have 5 seconds(random time frame) to press it again to go through the whole combo. It would let you weave it in and out of skills. Maybe the time frame isn’t enough time to go through a whole combo unless you focus on it a bit. With this you can get rid of the “hold option” that makes you wonder why it isn’t just a toggle.

It’s hard to really think about tho because they did try to do something interesting with the quick time event, but it just seemed clunky. Auto attacks are just such a finicky thing. They always feel basically useless or the primary focus of the game. Seems hard to find a middle ground.

MrPockets

HumblePuffin wrote: »

As far as making it more interesting tho, I think the combos of them shouldn’t have to be performed all at once. Say you go to attack a mob. You press your auto attack ability and it starts a timer where you have 5 seconds(random time frame) to press it again to go through the whole combo. It would let you weave it in and out of skills. Maybe the time frame isn’t enough time to go through a whole combo unless you focus on it a bit. With this you can get rid of the “hold option” that makes you wonder why it isn’t just a toggle.

This is along the same lines of what I was thinking. Funny enough, the new pokemon MOBA on switch has something like this, where every X auto attack will trigger a special effect that can interact with the rest of a pokemon's kit.