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Templar fans gather for design suggestions!

IronhopeIronhope Member
edited August 2021 in General Discussion
Hope I'm not the only templar fan here but even if I am, here are a few suggestions I hope will inspire the devs (even if just a little).

Before we get into the suggestions themselves, I'd like to say that to me, one of the most important things is that the class-spec have a strong connection to its theme, to its spirit, when it comes to its gameplay.... and boy is there a lot of that to work with when it comes to templar gameplay. So.... okay, lets get to the ability/passive suggestions.

1. Crusader charge.

Charge in a straight line dealing notable damage and knocking back all enemies hit.

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Yes I am a fan of the idea that mounts should also (occasionally at least) be weapons and this is one of these cases.
The tempalers were famous for many things, but their charges, often pure sacrifices for the sake of victory (lets face it, thats what being a melee dps in large battle is at the end of the day) are the stuff of legend and I think it would be a pure pitty not to bring them to ashes of creation.

Please imagine breaking the castle gate and being greeted by a wall of shields, a hard to crack nut that can make or break a game by itself. The solution? A templar charge straight out of a crusader movie to break the lines and get to the backline where the casters and rangers and healers are.

Additionally, I think a passive should exist that buffs allies once the charge is initiated, with an additional buff/aoe heal upon the charging templar's death.

2. Selfless defender.

Summon your horse to evacuate a wounded ally from the front-line. The ally will become invulnerable for 2 seconds and will receive a major speed buff (the animation will show him on the back of a crusader charger) being able to flee from battle when seriously wounded. Once the buff is over the ally will receive a debuff increasing damage taken by 40% of 5 seconds (to ensure the buff isn't used offensively, which goes against the purpose and spirit of the idea).

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Yes I know this is a reference to the hospitaller knights and not the templars, but they're both closely related organizations.
Either way, one of the things which made the hospitaller knights famous was them selflessly unmounting on the battlefield so their mount could be used to evacuate the wounded, while the crusader knight would stand, alone if need be, against the wrath of the enemy.

I think this would be an interesting game mechanic and would reflect the spirit of the class-spec well.

3. Lionheart (passive)

When alone against multiple enemies, gain X% extra stats for every single adversary outnumbering you.

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The most famous crusader of all times (okay ye he wasn't a templar but still, a crusader, same spirit) by far is the Crusader King, Richard the Lionheart. One of the things he is most famous for is his one man army stand, where he stud alone against a muslim army, roaring at them, challening them, and intimidated them into backing off.

The game will have a lot of objective pvp and one practice commonly seen in such games is leaving a man or two behind to defend a point of interest. Of course there's the risk of him always being overwhelmed by more players. But what if we combined the ''crusader spirit'' of the templar class-spec with a fun gameplay mechanic and made is so that the templar could fill a role where he is capable to face off against multiple adversaries better than other classes/spec would? Personally I think that would be a cool, unique thing for the templar, fitting well his crusader theme.

4. Silver chains.

Bind an enemy to you making him unable to leave your melee range. Maybe even use the chains to drag the enemy in the direction you want to? Maybe the one dragging the other player in the direction he wants to is the player with most strength as long as un-cc-ed?

(okay so cool image for this, sorry... I mean, I hope the ones so far were cool at least)

Okay so this is another Lionheart theme. Apparently, our famous crusader king also had quite a bit of humour: Accepting the surrender of a cruel tyrant he defeated in Cyrpus, he swore to not put him ''in iron'' (to not humiliate the defeated despot by putting him in shackles), so Richard (interpreting the terms of surrender literally) put the defeated tyrant in silver chains.

5. Retribution. (passive)

Upon death apply an aoe DoT effect to enemies around you, dealing damage equal to X% of the damage they dealt to you before death + an Y% increase [for each enemey which contributed]

The-execution-of-Jacques-de-Molay.jpg

Most people here probably know about the legendary cruse cast by Jacques de Molay, the last grand master of the Tempaler Order, against the king and pope who betrayed him for the sake of their own greed.

Again I think this would fit the spirit of the class-spec well and I think it would have good synergy with the front-liner, charger nature and theme of the class-spec.

6. As far as rotation is concerned, I think it would be cool to see a system where the templar applies a debuff (''Inquisition''?) to the enemey and, after a certain time, the templar can use an offensive ability (''Judgement''?) that will affect the enemy in different ways depending on how the enemy behaved.

- If he was a ranged attacker which kept kiting from long range --> He will be judged as a coward and suffer a debuff which greatly increases damage dealt to him from all sources for some time.
- If he simply dealt a lot of damage directly --> He will be judged for his viciousness and suffer part of that damage as retribution (up to a certain limit)
- If he is an enemey healer --> He will be judged as an accomplice and will have a dot applied to him dealing X% of the damage he healed the templars enemies for (up to a certain limit)
- If he buffed enemies --> He will suffer debuffs amounting to the complete opposite of the buffs he gave out and his ability to buff will also be tained for a while, throwing out debuffs instead of buffs for that period.
- If he debuffed the templar's allies --> He will have all those debuffs stacked on himself as retribution (up to a certain limit of damage and debuff time)

Meanwhile another ability (''Crusader strike?'') should be used to increase the duration of the Inquisition.

The Inquisition would be a suble effect and would tax enemies which simply don't pay attention and let the templars get too close.

7. Holy Lance

After a short cast time charge into a straight line, stunning the enemey you hit, while dealing some damage

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Okay I stole this from Darkest Dungeon, its pretty cool and I'm sure they dont mind :smiley:

I mean... the templar is by definition a knight and knights are supposed to not be the most mobile (they were in fact very mobile despite baseless current misconceptions) or nimble but if a gap closer is really needed, maybe this would be a good idea.


Just some random ideas.

Very eager to hear yours templar fans.

Who knows, maybe a dev who is a templar fan gives these a read and we end up contributing to the game and our future experience.




Comments

  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2021
    So... First, have to understand that "templar" in fantasy games is not necessarily more than a religious knight (like... they were in real world in fact, nothing more than a religious knight order "knight of the temple")
    And so, there is many way to do templar far from what you show (just, templar from a old god for example? :-° ). Templar became one inspiration for fantasy paladin (which, in real life, were errant knight wanting to do pious, valorous act. far from "order of paladin" we can see on some fantasy settings, which is closer to templars or teutonic knights. )
    Also crusader and templar are far different... Some crusader were not "good guys" or even pious one... there were some criminals doing it to save their souls... (but remaining in criminal spirits and doing not so soul saving things :-° ). Other were just... soldier, with no other choice to follow their lord. (Be it a good guy like Lionheart or some more cynical also)

    Now about templar in Ashes of Creation :
    It is a Cleric as primary archetype. support class. With some damaging spells and healing spells.
    A templar will be a support mainly so.
    Then there is fighter secundary archetype.

    So finally, it is a Cleric, with fighter augments (so probably more damage augment, maybe boost spells with small buffs ? ).
    For now, (things could change) secundary archetype only gives augments for skills. So no more passiv to the character itself. And augments are just skill affixes, not "new skills". You take skill from primary archetype, and affect them with some affix to improve them.

    Augments will be the same for any class using fighter as secundary archetype. Even if it will impact the aesthetic, and the role (a templar will probably more offensiv than a high priest) It won't totally transform the primary archetype.

    See more the class as specialisation of the primary archetype. This goes for the 64 classes.
    Necromancer, Conjurer and Broodwarden are 3 sumoner, using augments (so skill modifier) from 3 different classes. and getting their aesthetic modified (so the pet won't have the same look. but the "tank pet" will be mainly "tank" on both 3)


    I can understand that it is far from all you dreamed, but here, the templar is just a cleric, with its skills modified by some affixes coming from "fighter"
  • Aerlana wrote: »
    I can understand that it is far from all you dreamed, but here, the templar is just a cleric, with its skills modified by some affixes coming from "fighter"

    We're still in ealry alpha and class design is clearly far from any close-to-finished phase.

    Personally I really hope there will actually be 64 classes and not just 8 with various visual and stat augmentation, because there will be a lot of disappointed people (including me) otherwise.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2021
    it is not "stat augmentation"
    Augment modify primary archetype skills, but for now, secundary archetype have no impact about character stats (which is defined lvl1 by your race, and evolve depending on your primary archetype)

    Primary archetype will define your stats, your skills.
    Secundary archetype will define how you can modify those skills. (Not sure if only activ skills)

    And finally there is weapon skills, making another way to have more identity on your character making each weapon a specific choice.
    Also, there will be some freedom about your armor. So templar, being basically a cleric, will probably be close to Hospitaller (not much a killer than a first line support going to melee with fighters)

    People disappointment come from expectation. this is why i remind you what was said about what classes are. You can expect 64 totally different class, with 64 deep different class mechanics. but we will "just" have skill augments.

    Also "just" ... we don't have real information about skill augments... Things like kind of selfheal while hitting ennemy with some cleric augments, Sumoner augments would allow to summon flying weapons, and mage augments should allow to add elemental effect to spell, or transform "charge" into "blink on target" . . . So lets be honest, it is impossible to say now if templar will be a lot different from a high priest, or just a little different. We can just consider that fighter is a damage archetype so its augment should be around "more" damages. It could be buffs applying on the target you heal for example... But even this is pure speculation.

    Also, not sure it would be a so good idea to have 64 totally different classes... Even more if people want balance. The more you get class identity, the less you can reach any kind of balance some players want... (and will whine about...)


    To defend your hope, focus more about cleric on one side, and fighter augment on the other.
    Doing suggestion in a way that is not what the games seems to go is best way to speak in the wind.
  • Aerlana wrote: »
    it is not "stat augmentation"

    My point was that if 56 ''classes'' are in fact little extra instead of something substantial, the game will have a serious problem.

    Aerlana wrote: »
    So templar, being basically a cleric, will probably be close to Hospitaller (not much a killer than a first line support going to melee with fighters)

    World of Warcraft went through this as well.

    At first hybrids were what you just described.

    But it turned out to be a disastrous design and a few years later they were forced to change it.

    I hope AoC devs wont need years and the break of thousands of hearts of fans to understand this lesson they can just take now from Blizzard.

    Aerlana wrote: »
    People disappointment come from expectation.

    People's disappointment can come from many directions, legitimate and illegitimate and honestly, if the class diversity turns out to be a series of small buffs and cosmetic changes, it will be a pretty legitimate disappointment.

    Aerlana wrote: »
    Also "just" ... we don't have real information about skill augments...

    Yeah so lets start making it clear to the devs we have expectations as opposed to ''yeah just put more sparcle on the ability and make it like 15% better'' and its fine.

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