A different kind of monetization for cosmetics.

Sathrago

Ok so this is something I have been thinking about quite a bit, and I would like to throw it to others and see your thoughts on it, because honestly I don't see any real downsides to it. So I am counting on you guys to crap all over the idea. This idea is note entirely directed at Ashes of Creation, and is more of a general concept for any game sporting the cosmetic only approach to monetization.

Here goes. Instead of buying specific cosmetics from the cash shop, what if all cosmetics were achievable in the game as apart of achievements, crafting, you know, the whole nine yards. The kicker would be that you cannot transmog/glamour items without purchasing a consumable from the store. Once this consumable is used on a specific item, that item's cosmetic features will be permanently available to the player for transmog/glamouring from then on. This means you can still walk around showing off your favorite set of gear for free but if you wish to unlock the actual transmog/glamour process to be applied to other items, you need to buy the consumable and use it on the chosen item.

I think this approach keeps an items cosmetic meaningful and consumer friendly. Yes, players that do not earn the item in the game will not get to use the cosmetics. I think that is better for the game.

truely

That doesn't make much sense because it will reduce the number of cosmetic purchases. It's good to let the whales spent their money on lots of cosmetics and this would stop that from happening.

JustVine

Sathrago wrote: »

Ok so this is something I have been thinking about quite a bit, and I would like to throw it to others and see your thoughts on it, because honestly I don't see any real downsides to it. So I am counting on you guys to crap all over the idea. This idea is note entirely directed at Ashes of Creation, and is more of a general concept for any game sporting the cosmetic only approach to monetization.

Here goes. Instead of buying specific cosmetics from the cash shop, what if all cosmetics were achievable in the game as apart of achievements, crafting, you know, the whole nine yards. The kicker would be that you cannot transmog/glamour items without purchasing a consumable from the store. Once this consumable is used on a specific item, that item's cosmetic features will be permanently available to the player for transmog/glamouring from then on. This means you can still walk around showing off your favorite set of gear for free but if you wish to unlock the actual transmog/glamour process to be applied to other items, you need to buy the consumable and use it on the chosen item.

I think this approach keeps an items cosmetic meaningful and consumer friendly. Yes, players that do not earn the item in the game will not get to use the cosmetics. I think that is better for the game.

I'm a costume fiend. The moment you give me a free way to achieve them I will simply not buy basically anything. Especially the transmog. I don't need to wear a costume in combat. That's what cool armor is for. I doubt I am alone.

I grew up poor. Just because I have disposable income now does not mean I am going to spend it if given a free option. Costumes make good rewards for grinding. Might be your point but, I am the target audience of such a system and can tell you it will save me a lot of money. Money not going to Intrepid. Consumer friendly? Yes. Bad for Intrepid's wallet? Absolutely.

Vhaeyne

@Sathrago

The downside?

Whatever hypothetical game that is using your idea is competing in the same market as games that just charge for cosmetics without making players earn the item.

You would have to offer a vastly superior product on every level compared to your competition in order for consumers to be willing to put themselves though extra challenges just to be able to buy shit they don't need.
Especially when other games just let you buy shit you don't need without challenging you in any way.

I like the philosophy behind your idea, but I don't think it would work in practice.

JustVine

Vhaeyne wrote: »

@Sathrago

The downside?

Whatever hypothetical game that is using your idea is competing in the same market as games that just charge for cosmetics without making players earn the item.

You would have to offer a vastly superior product on every level compared to your competition in order for consumers to be willing to put themselves though extra challenges just to be able to buy shit they don't need.
Especially when other games just let you buy shit you don't need without challenging you in any way.

I like the philosophy behind your idea, but I don't think it would work in practice.

Yeah I am definitely not the average person. The system would work on me because I like challenges (and stop working because I don't give a fuck about transmogs enough to pay money for them.) But as you rightly point out. Most people don't. So not only are you losing money from the people willing to work for it, but you are also losing a huge bucket of money from costume casuals. It's a big lose lose for any company

CROW3

I’m a little confused (it’s early), what problem are you trying to solve?

Sathrago

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m a little confused (it’s early), what problem are you trying to solve?

Well the loss of value that players get when they achieve something in game only for there to be easily accessible, and comparable if not better cosmetics on the shop.

Vine and vaeyne have the right of my intent, but I guess this form of monetization cant stand on it's own and would require other forms to compare to just flat out selling cosmetics.

JustVine

Sathrago wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m a little confused (it’s early), what problem are you trying to solve?

Well the loss of value that players get when they achieve something in game only for there to be easily accessible, and comparable if not better cosmetics on the shop.

Vine and vaeyne have the right of my intent, but I guess this form of monetization cant stand on it's own and would require other forms to compare to just flat out selling cosmetics.

The thing is I feel like Intrepid is allegedly approaching it in the best way possible. Earn things in game but with slightly less cool color pallet, but keep it purchasable in store with the optimized pallet. And since different people have different tastes the free version might be better for them than the purchasable one anyway. Make cool costumes with purchasable but make sure high end gear also looks bad ass. It's got the same underlying goal as what you are aiming at but without killing their cash shop too badly. Allegedly.

CROW3

Ah. I look at BDO as the way NOT to manage cosmetics. All armor and weapons look like crap unless you purchase something from the shop, in which case you now have a HUGE part of the population all wearing the same model of clothing with different dyes.

From everything I've read from Steven et al on this subject his intent with the cosmetics in the cash shop aren't looking to mimic this behavior.

JustVine

BDO's only redeeming quality is the way they implemented farming, and Nova being one of the best summoner type classes ever implemented in action combat. It's a shame everything else about the game ruins those two great accomplishments and their usability. Almost everything else in that game is a good example of how not to build an mmo.

CROW3

JustVine wrote: »

BDO's only redeeming quality is the way they implemented farming, and Nova being one of the best summoner type classes ever implemented in action combat. It's a shame everything else about the game ruins those two great accomplishments and their usability. Almost everything else in that game is a good example of how not to build an mmo.

Yeah, my first couple hours in BDO was like neat, wait, what, oh, what, ooof.

JustVine

You think that's bad try going through the dumb main quest line 8 times.

Songcaller

I don't want any consumables in the cash shop. I would consider any consumable to be a betrayal of no P2W and no P4C.

JustVine

Neurath wrote: »

I don't want any consumables in the cash shop. I would consider any consumable to be a betrayal of no P2W and no P4C.

Do you consider a transmog to somehow be 'winning' or making a player stronger than another?

Atama

A consumable that gives no actual benefit in gameplay (doesn't boost stats, doesn't give an ability, etc.) is not P2W. If you could buy a consumable that let you shoot off fireworks, or turns your head into a pumpkin for an hour, is that P2W? The idea that all consumables are P2W is a silly one.

CROW3

Weeelllll...what if I use the fireworks as a distraction before I stab them in the head? Hmmmm???

P2PWN!

Dygz

Different than Embers???

Better -functional- items can already be acquired by achievements, crafting, you know, the whole nine yards.
Why should we add cosmetics to that?

Songcaller

I do not want the door open to consumables. I do not appreciate the store at the moment although I have received Cosmetics for Bug reports/ bug fixes. I used to buy the costumes until I learnt they were onesies. I do not want consumables in the shop because I do not want to feel lesser than a wale, or, to have to compete with a whale.

Fireworks should be in the game base, we do not need fireworks sold in the cash shop.

Sathrago

Neurath wrote: »

I do not want the door open to consumables. I do not appreciate the store at the moment although I have received Cosmetics for Bug reports/ bug fixes. I used to buy the costumes until I learnt they were onesies. I do not want consumables in the shop because I do not want to feel lesser than a wale, or, to have to compete with a whale.

Fireworks should be in the game base, we do not need fireworks sold in the cash shop.

I will reiterate that this consumable would permanently unlock the item for transmog. It's not like you have to buy one everytime you want to reskin a new piece of gear. You are unlocking the ability to transmog that specific item onto any other item of that same type.

Songcaller

Yeah, I understand the request. The issue I have is I want to be able to switch and swap. I do not want to have to pay a fee to switch and swap on top of the monthly subscription fee. I miss the old MMOs where we only had subscription fees and no cash shop. I have of course provided financial assistance through the current cash shop but so far, the armour I have seen in game has been subpar compared to the cosmetics.

The other issue is variations of shop cosmetics will be in the base game. Why would someone pay a transmog fee for a cosmetic item when you could just find the cosmetic in game and transmog as much as you want. I do not understand why you want to take a broad free system and narrow the parameters around the system use.

Atama

Neurath wrote: »

I do not want to have to pay a fee to switch and swap on top of the monthly subscription fee. I miss the old MMOs where we only had subscription fees and no cash shop.

You miss them because that business model isn't profitable. They can't survive. At least not anymore. Subscription-based games still have cash shops of some kind.

I think if you wanted to go with a pure subscription the rate you'd have to charge would be $20+ a month at least, and customers are going to look at that price and not bother. (Just spitballing the price; I don't know how much it would actually be but it would sure be more.)

At least in a game like WoW or AoC, you can completely avoid the cash shop and not be put out at all. It is completely voluntary; you'll never hit a roadblock that you need to pay another fee to get past (unlike basically all F2P games). And I believe that AoC isn't going to charge for expansions (or other DLC) unlike WoW. (At least there is no plan for that.)

Songcaller

The problem with a subscription only model is the issue of subscribers. Only WoW could've survived on subscriptions alone at WoW peak. All other MMOs fall short of substantial subscribers. To begin with a cash shop means you are either not confident of large subscriber base or a money grabber (much like WoW became).

The beauty of the current shop remains that I don't have to purchase anything and can just pay the subscription. If you change the cash shop to have consumables required for any part of the game then I could not avoid the cash shop.

I've seen some stunning requests to make the game less attractive but going the route of Amazon and New World is definitely not my cup of tea.

JustVine

Neurath wrote: »

The problem with a subscription only model is the issue of subscribers. Only WoW could've survived on subscriptions alone at WoW peak. All other MMOs fall short of substantial subscribers. To begin with a cash shop means you are either not confident of large subscriber base or a money grabber (much like WoW became).

The beauty of the current shop remains that I don't have to purchase anything and can just pay the subscription. If you change the cash shop to have consumables required for any part of the game then I could not avoid the cash shop.

I've seen some stunning requests to make the game less attractive but going the route of Amazon and New World is definitely not my cup of tea.

Costumes aren't a requirement. Problem solved.

Songcaller

You have shown no ability to understand the issue. Why should we have to pay for consumables for cosmetics when we have already paid for the cosmetics? Why should we have to pay to wear a cosmetic when we already own the cosmetic? Why should we have to pay to transmog equipment we already own?

You lot must have more money than sense.

JustVine

Neurath wrote: »

You have shown no ability to understand the issue. Why should we have to pay for consumables for cosmetics when we have already paid for the cosmetics? Why should we have to pay to wear a cosmetic when we already own the cosmetic? Why should we have to pay to transmog equipment we already own?

You lot must have more money than sense.

Do you even understand what a transmog is? Also the proposed solution wasn't temporary. It was permanent. We aren't talking about a temporary consumable. You can still wear the costume. You are right you did buy it. No one is stopping you from wearing it.

Cash shop cosmetics typically are allowed to break more design rules than cashless. They are less immersive. A transmog increases how many places you can wear your sparkly ass sequence suit. Pay the fee if you want to lower people's immersion. That's not some tragic anti-consumer move. That's charging you more for you wanting something nonstandard and involving more code (even if it's easy.)