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Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
What does it mean to you to be powerful with "x" character?
MybroViajero
Member, Alpha Two
Skill experience vs Max level (items, level, gear, etc)
A player with a lot of experience using a character's ability but with a low level, should he beat a player who has the maximum levels in his character but has little experience using his abilities?
What decides which player is better?
We know that there are several factors that are for and against the two types of players but within them there is one in common that is interesting, time.
Time is a fundamental factor for a video game player, especially for an MMO player, if he manages his time well he can become a great PVE and PVP player or in general a great MMO player.
So , what makes us feel really powerful?
If we understand that an MMO has a beginning of basic skills that everyone has (depending on the class / race / etc), then we know the levels at which we will have the improved skills (level 20/25/30/35 / etc).
At what point do we have a skill difference based on our effort / time? , because sooner or later everyone who strives will achieve the same improved skills, will know the rotations, movements, etc, (according to class / race / etc). Then the time that was a fundamental factor ends up being a secondary factor, replaced by the level, gear, etc.
Everything is highly conditioned to certain levels already stipulated, so the opportunity to differentiate yourself from another player is lost.
What if the same skills had to be improved by use, training, or they are affected by the load of use, they can lose experience if they are used in a bad way or they can even share experience with the level of the player?
If want to give diversity to the leveling content, could take into account that skills are not just something static that is obtained at a certain level ,But rather that skills are a mandatory improvement factor so that players can take advantage of 100%.
For instance:
In this way, by giving diversity to the abilities, there would be a more logical sense regarding the feeling of power with "x" character in both PVP and PVE.
If the level makes you more powerful than another player, if the playing time makes you more powerful than another player, then if the skills are diversified, the panorama of possibilities would be widening so that the players can differentiate themselves, be better for having improved a certain skill against another character or have improved certain abilities for certain situations.
Obviously the balance of the characters is one of the biggest obstacles there is but that does not prevent trying to find ideas for better content.
A player with a lot of experience using a character's ability but with a low level, should he beat a player who has the maximum levels in his character but has little experience using his abilities?
What decides which player is better?
We know that there are several factors that are for and against the two types of players but within them there is one in common that is interesting, time.
Time is a fundamental factor for a video game player, especially for an MMO player, if he manages his time well he can become a great PVE and PVP player or in general a great MMO player.
So , what makes us feel really powerful?
If we understand that an MMO has a beginning of basic skills that everyone has (depending on the class / race / etc), then we know the levels at which we will have the improved skills (level 20/25/30/35 / etc).
At what point do we have a skill difference based on our effort / time? , because sooner or later everyone who strives will achieve the same improved skills, will know the rotations, movements, etc, (according to class / race / etc). Then the time that was a fundamental factor ends up being a secondary factor, replaced by the level, gear, etc.
Everything is highly conditioned to certain levels already stipulated, so the opportunity to differentiate yourself from another player is lost.
What if the same skills had to be improved by use, training, or they are affected by the load of use, they can lose experience if they are used in a bad way or they can even share experience with the level of the player?
If want to give diversity to the leveling content, could take into account that skills are not just something static that is obtained at a certain level ,But rather that skills are a mandatory improvement factor so that players can take advantage of 100%.
For instance:
- The skills have their own level of growth depending on their use.
- The good or bad use that can affect their growth.
- The improvements that can be given to skills depending on how you buy them, create them, obtain them, their rareness, their affinity, etc.
- The training you give him (skills training content).
- Evolution of skills depending on how they are trained, improved, used, stimulated, fused, studied, etc.
- The player can decide whether to grant level experience to their skills or to their own player level.
- etc
In this way, by giving diversity to the abilities, there would be a more logical sense regarding the feeling of power with "x" character in both PVP and PVE.
If the level makes you more powerful than another player, if the playing time makes you more powerful than another player, then if the skills are diversified, the panorama of possibilities would be widening so that the players can differentiate themselves, be better for having improved a certain skill against another character or have improved certain abilities for certain situations.
Obviously the balance of the characters is one of the biggest obstacles there is but that does not prevent trying to find ideas for better content.
0
Comments
I don't think "time" is being used correctly here.
Those who want skill to be dominate do so b/c they've invested time in other games and are confident that their raw mechanical skill can make up for any shortcomings from not knowing the intricacies of the game or not having invested as much playtime as their opponent...you see this often in FPS games where someone who dominates in CoD can usually do pretty well in Apex.
Then you have "time" as the deciding factor where the strongest aren't necessarily the best players, just those who sweated more hours into the game for the best gear, highest level, etc.
All I've seen from your examples is you shuffling the playtime it takes to set your strength...player skill isn't really relevant there as the deciding factor is how much time you invested in a particular set of skills or your character's level/gear.
I understand your point, and I did not want to put the example of MOBAS, dota player going to LOL, because we are from MMOs and within an MMO it is assumed that there are players who have previously played MMOs.
But I still think that the time spent in an MMO makes you more or less a good PVE / PVP player, but there comes a point where there is no more, there is no significant diversity that makes you differentiate yourself from another player unless it is reaching maximum level with better gears, attributes, etc.
From my point of view it is very static, predictable and monotonous.
Beating classes that counter me.
Winning 1v2 of the same tier and maaaaaybe 1v3.
Powerful.
I dont care for top dps or best to have in group. I care about the small encounters that make things a personal matter.
Gear is a must. Time invested in the game is a must. This isnt LoL.
lmfao , why ?
Because if you don't have more powerful, the doors to better content would be closed , even for the RP you need powerful ,and seeing that AoC will be a very sociable MMO where the PVP and PVE will be married , the powerful is needed.
Seems related...
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
LMFAO
That joke is better than NW and Lost Ark with no delays
So when you're getting molested by everyone (even lower level/less geared players) in PvP and get kicked out of instance groups you're going to have fun?
For example,
doing great amounts of proper killing if you chose to be a dps.
doing great amounts of life saving if you chose to be a healer.
doing great amounts of tanking and peeling if you chose to be a tank.
doing great amount of buffing if you chose to be a buffer.
doing the right amount of all, with the focus on the path you chose, as a hybrid.
Being powerful, doing your job well, isn't the same as the character being fun.
For example, you can just wipe the floor 1v3 with people in PvP.
You can be top dps/healer/tank in instances and get carried on arms by your team like you're some sort of rockstar.
At the end of the day, if your character plays clunky/stressful as well, if he is boring (spam 1 on enemy non-stop, every fight, all fights), is the class/sub-class theme just doesn't fit the gameplay, etc then you're not going to have a good time.
PvP-wise, most open world skirmishes start skewed toward the attackers because they decide when to make the move. They make the move because they believe they are in an advantageous position, be it because of their numbers, levels, organization vs the defenders or whatever. So I understand why most people want to be as powerful as possible, it can either even the odds or skew them even more in their favour. It's about making thing possible or easier.
Being gear powerful is all about doing things easier. Trivializing content that was once challenging. Diminishing the risks under a spread-sheet of numbers.
Respectable opinion, time always plays in our favor or against us
It's a matter of perspective.
I don't think about "powerful".
What I think about is being competently skilled enough to do the things I want to do.
With character progression, that might mean that I need to become more skilled.
For instance, I might want to gain a signature class ability, like Spirit of the Wind.
Spirit of the Wind allows me to gift other players with a benefit they will likely enjoy.
I might want to gain some form of Healing to end sickness or damage in the world.
I might want to increase my Stealth so that I can explore more of the world without being insta-killed by the mobs in that reason.
Powerful is just not a concept I think about when I'm playing an RPG because I'm focused more on the role and fitting and being competent in my role rather than thinking about anything being powerful.
Yes, it was definitely a language barrier.
My concept of "powerful" is very close to what you mean, the difference between knowing how to use the abilities of "x" character vs having power because of what that character has (gear, weapons, etc), is something that always me It has attracted attention.
The freedom to have the ability to use your character 100%, to be able to get all the potential, is something unique to me.
I like to think of Dungeons and Dragons in this scenario. I know it's not an MMO, but I think it's a game where the question could swing in either argument's favor (especially since some TTRPGs share similarities with AoC). Idk if my level 5 Monk could beat a level 10 Bard. However... I've been playing for years. So, I could sure try! Should it be a bigger challenge for my level 5 monk, or should I be able to dunk on that Bard since I have lots of experience?
Interesting question and points coming up here
I don't know but every time I read you , you remind me more of Gimli
Yes, it would be something similar, but of course considering the complexity that that would bring for the development / balancing team it would be a bit difficult
Although really if they had in the very distant future to think about something that could be differential, the diversification of skills would be something interesting to take into account.
That's high praise. More beer!
When I PvP in Neverwinter Online, I don't care about the combat or how many times I get killed.
What I care about is racing to capture or maintain a capture point.
Combat is a waste of time - capture points count twice as much as kills.
I let people kill me as often as they like and then race to the next pylon.
Power doesn't matter in that event.
I typically am not the one who gets kicked out of the groups I'm. It's other people I play with who get kicked out the group.
If I get kicked out of a group, it's not really because of "powererful", rather it's something like the group leader insisting I switch to using Repel abilities when I am an Ice Wizard; not a Control Wizard.
How much should gear play a role in the completion of a form of content vs skill? As in, if it's 50% gear 50 skill: Someone who has half the gear (and in turn stats) of another, but twice the skill, it should be equal in lets say DPS or a 1v1?
If that is the case I would say for me personally it would be 30-40% gear and 60-70% skill. Mostly because I would break down skill into a macro and micro level. Skill would be half game knowledge (Knowing your class, your counters, as well as your enemies or opponents skills, cooldowns, boss mechanics, damaged patterns etc) and the other half mechanical skill (reaction time, judgment (figuring out in the middle of combat: should I pre-move this boss mechanic so I can stand and do more dps during a cooldown), consistency (How many times do you mess up mechanics, or overlap cc).
Roughly 1/3 gear, 1/3 game knowledge, 1/3 mechanical skill. Something along those lines.
Gear usually has the biggest impact in combat. So with other forms of content I am not sure how much it would really apply. But I could be missing something.
Also on the topic of being "powerful" the great part of ashes seems to be, if someone doesn't want to farm out the max gear, and instead wants to be a baker/cook, they still have content and are valuable. So not everyone is looking to top charts and win duels.
An mmo-rpg is a very big experience.
People can have fun in many ways.
Your average Joe has no particular goal in mind when entering such a world.
He will want to have fun in world pvp, have fun in small and big instances, have fun in organized world pvp, have fun making money, etc
He wont do any of these is he picked an underpowered class and he will probably quit after feeling bitter about wasting his time with a class that turned out to be unviable in most things.
In the examples you gave, sure, powerful has a different meaning.
In your first example, stealth+mobility+resilience sound like the goal.
In the second, crowd-control.
Yes powerful has different meanings especially in very particular examples (trying to fit a particular role in organized team play).
What the devs should focus on is:
- Giving players who chose the X path the ability to do X (don't let people pick a healer who then turns out to not heal that well).
- Making the X path fun (gameplay needs to be fun... duh).
- Making sure the X path fits the class theme, so if someone picked a rogue for example, besides having the ability to do dps, he should have good stealth, mobility, crowd control, poisons, etc
The problem is more complicated when we look into hybrids but the solution is only one.
- let hybrids who specialized in dps deal real dps.
- let hybrids who specialized in healing do real healing.
- let hybrids who specialize into tanking be able to tank.
The rest of the hybrid's performance should come from his hybrid nature, which is, at the end of the day, his class theme.
Of course it should be a big challenge.
its an mmo-rpg.
A player's character is the very core of his experience. It's his body in the mmo-rpg world.
If a core-element of his character, the character's level (which lets face it, includes his talents, stat re-distributions, etc so other core elements of his character by itself), doesn't matter.... that's really bad for the immersion, for the rpg-part.
The real question, in my opinion, is:
Should the lvl 5 be able to beat the level 10 at all?
I'm tempted to answer no directly simply because an rpg where important things actually don't matter, is a bad rpg.
I will however go for a: yes..... if the lvl 10 player is absolute garbage and doesn't have good talents, gear, stat re-distribution, etc), so a ''yes but very very rarely''.
If we go into the lvl 7+ then the yes will be more confident.
Again...absurd.
All you are saying is that the devs should focus on making the game fun because if it's not fun, people won't play.
As if the devs are not focused on making their game fun.