More ways to give Node Governments power

maouw

Currently we know governments can set tax rates and choose things to build.
Please hear out my idea:

I propose giving governments the power to gatekeep their Points of Interest (POIs. i.e. dungeons, etc.)
For a government, this could mean:

• The Node Government (NG from here on) has guards at the entrance to POIs that roam the POI
• The NG hands out passes/licences to players that grant them permission to pass the guards benefits at the POI
• The POI becomes corrupted on a regular basis, and it's the NG's job to find a group of adventurers who can cleanse it
• When a POI is cleansed, it gives the NG access to Contracts and Quests that their citizens can take to fill the node Treasury
• Whenever a player dies inside the POI, the government pays a "retrieval" expense for that player's respawn - which is significantly more expensive if the POI hasn't been cleansed yet. This means the government needs to be really picky about who attempts to cleanse their POIs, but they can give out licenses freely while the POI is clean.

For a node citizen, this could mean:

• Rare resources can be harvested inside a cleansed POI if you take a government contract
• There are contracts available for different player skills
• When the POI is cleansed, you have access to quests unique to your POI
• Your node's reliquary could have bonus effects that modify the POI
• The POI is your hometurf, and your local heros are the ones who cleanse your POI
• You get advantages inside the POI if you are holding a licence
• You can sneak into the POI without a license but the risks are on you

For guilds, this could mean:

• Being the Patron Guild of a node means you are most likely be given access to corrupted POIs.
• This implies you get exclusive access to your POI's corrupted drops
• You have vested interest in who comes to power in the Node
• Your new recruits can take up lower-skill contracts to help contribute

BUT HERE'S WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING:

For rival nodes/guilds:

• If the guards at a POI are not well funded by their node, you can defeat them and raid (like properly raid) the POI
• Certain classes may be able to sneak/climb into foreign POIs, or uncover secret passages to foreign POIs.
• Raiding POI's directly impacts a foreign node's treasury, especially if the POI is corrupted. This can put the node in a vulnerable position for a Node Siege.
• If you die inside a foreign node, you pay a fee (or longer respawn?) to that foreign government

Does this sound like something you'd be interested in?

Azherae

Problems:
1. A gameplay requirement breaks immersion (guard strength)
2. A gameplay element incentivizes the geographic focus of a nonlinear, rewarding, but negative behaviour (fighting over the POI at the entrance)
3. A social element directly benefits a more powerful guild in a way that encourages that guild to drive out lower level or 'ineffective' citizens of their node (only Node Citizens can quest for Rare Resources within a POI, but it is implied that these are gatherables).

Final vote: Uninterested.

Other notes:
You made me see a flaw in an MMO guild-system structure I was designing today, so grati as always. I will credit you in the game's 'special thanks' section.

daveywavey

Not really. I don't like the idea of having to go to another player to ask to be allowed to play content.

maouw

@Azherae
Could you replace the guards with a mini-siege system?
Can you explain a bit more about the negative behaviour (is it because the antagoniser has nothing to risk?)? What are the long term effects that you see from this behaviour?
Is the geographic focus part of the problem?
What if there are also POI contracts for low-ability citizens? (Perhaps even: low-ability contracts generate more high-ability contracts?)

@daveywavey
Would it be ok if you just picked up the contract (and licence) from noticeboards around town?

Azherae

The Geographic focus is actually the entire problem. If you found a way to remove it, everything goes straight into the 'good' column.

What I'd expect is that 'opposing' players would start to gather at the guard area with the intention of ganking or disrupting any group that wanted to use their 'pass' to enter the dungeon. They don't have to 'spread out to look for them'. At least not much. They can rove, and if they were confident they could win the fight at all, they don't even care if everyone comes in the end.

But they get a secondary benefit. If no one shows up except their own group... now they have enough to just attack the guards or initiate the mini-siege. The 'authorized group' could try to wait for this and then jump in, but the point I'm making is, the situation would devolve into a PvP zone because the disruptor group can just 'camp there'.

In the case of the POI contracts for low-ability citizens, I can't say for certain that anything bad would consistently happen. Thinking in terms of the 'meta-breaker' designer, the worst case is that the 'low ability RP-er with not so much time to play' gets harrassed explicitly to 'go clear your contract so we can unlock the better one!'

If the higher contract isn't 'worth it', then... they are back to 'being a liability', at least for some. A good, wholesome community has no problems with this, but you know how I design things already, I'll never think in terms of that.

"Take the worst possible human behaviour motivation and twist it until even the most sociopathic tryhard is doing what you want."

Not to force them to be different. Embrace their behaviour and figure out how to make it work for your system so that both the 'sociopath' and the 'carebear' (forgive the use of these terms, they're convenient) are somewhat 'happy'.

So, your goal appears to be 'increase control over the POI', by limiting 'access' and creating dynamism. I'd probably start by switching the 'guards' to 'stealthy operatives' who have the skills to move around freely in the Dungeon. Those without the pass from the Node Government, when they die down there, they lose stuff because the operatives pick it up. They have an extra long revive timer too. Whereas those with permission get random help, etc.

The 'disruptor group' now has almost the same situation. A big enough group that would have cleared the Siege or defeated the guards, can enter with much less risk, but if anyone does die, there's a chance the Government Employees will slip away with their stuff (and the employees don't fight back and for the purposes of this, grant Corruption if killed). Smaller groups trying to go in, have to worry about it.

But now, the 'authorized' group has incentive to run into the 'dungeon' for the fight. "Just griefing them" will result in not only exp loss, but monetary or maybe even gear loss. You entered the corrupted area without permission/the cleansing charm so you have 'temp Corruption' and therefore drop gear.

If you successfully grief and gank and pester people without dying, or sneak around and gather whatever and escape, then good. If you die, well, that was the risk you took going into a POI for a Node without Government authorization.

Disruptors get to feel badass when they succeed at things, authorized get to feel like they can execute a plan that involves a risk to the opponent.

Personally I'd have the Government Ninjas or whatever you want to think of them as, confiscate their mainhand weapon, for maximum effect. They could revive but have reduced damage potential, lose a powerful weapon (or attempted to grief/disrupt without a strong weapon), and have to change strategy. Also, to reinforce all this, the cleansing charm 'pacifies' the mobs even though they still attack, so in any situation where someone tries to just 'train mobs to the authorized group', they stay at the top of the hate list.

(Can you tell that I spend a lot of time on anti-griefing design?)

Kovrm

Not in favor of the idea.

CROW3

Taking this a little different direction. This kind of reminds me of relics in AoE. What if the PoI is mobile and can be captured then moved to a node capitol? Once held in a capitol it allows a special tech / node development tree to open. This could be any kind of content to benefit citizens of that node.

But what if the relic is held too long, the citizens become to enthralled or covetous of that artifact. Maybe it attracts some disaster over time. An Arkenstone for instance.

Idk. I like where these ideas can lead.

Dolyem

Absolutely not...unless I am also allowed to break all of those rules somehow and RP a Ranger/fighter as Burt Gummer

maouw

@Azherae
I see.
So Guards roaming the POI, and direct benefits to the licensed players vs unlicensed.
Do you think you could instead have unstealthed guards, but the government can pour funding into increasing number of roaming guards? (Or just make "stealth for guards" a funding option). I say this because it also adds an element of "stealth mission" for unlicensed folk.
Government holdings sounds really interesting and I could see that being useful in other systems too.

@CROW3
I was thinking that you could expand your own Node, and thus gain access to surrounding Vassal Node's POI's?
The Downside would be that the POI would be stuck at a low level, unless you destroy your own node and make the local node the metropolis.
Does that make sense?
I'm also really curious how the reliquary systems are gonna work. I like your idea of unlocking special progression systems, it sounds more fun than adding modifiers to POIs.