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Open world ''goodies'' to keep players constantly have fun exploring the world for profit
Ironhope
Member
Besides the obvious gathering resources and rare (elite) mobs, what else would give you guys an incentive to keep exploring the world and have fun doing so?
Personally, I can think of a few such things that I would like to see in the game
1) First on my list is one brilliant thing which an otherwise trash mmo-rpg did that I loved. The metin stones of Metin 2.
Weird meteors that would drop randomly in each map. With a high hp pool they would drop pretty good loot when destroyed. The thing is, when attacked, they would summon all sorts of mobs (usually related to the nature of the map) to defend them.
Why I think these were great?
Because it made players want to roam around the zones all the time. The world was always alive, both in pve and pvp.
And overall, I think it was a more versatile and interesting system than simply a more powerful mob.
How could AoC implement this system?
Can think of many ways.
Have abandoned, large, transport crates that are ''cursed'' or oozing weird chemicals making nearby mobs go crazy and swarm people trying to break the crate or stuff like that.
Would be a cool thing, a cool event to have there in the world for people to know that whenever they run around for whatever reason, they could find one and get the chance at great loot.
2) Second on my list is the Dark Souls crystal lizards.
Small creatures with no offensive abilities that drop good loot. Whats the catch? When starteled, they run in a random direction and disappear if not killed fast enough.
I'd like to see something like this in AoC. A loot chest which you need to chase while risking ugly mob pulls and other enviromental dangers, for the chance of good loot.
Maybe have higher lvl ones require notable amounts of cc/an ambush/either way serious group planning to catch?
Maybe have higher lvl ones like that spawn in the middle of boss fights or sieges or stuff like that for some added flavor?
3) Okay, now, this is a classic, the loot chests from World of Warcraft plus mimics being out there in the world.
Whats in this cavern? Who knows, maybe it's a chest, lets go see.
Whats in this ruin? Who knows, maybe its a chest, lets go see.
Whats in that sunken ship? Who knows, maybe its a chest, lets go see.
Yeah, trasure chest are great. This game is going to have quite the pirate theme to it so please, let's go.
Just give it more risk and put actual traps and a chance of encountering a mimic (elite mob), for the added adventrue flavor.
So yeah, what kind of such incentive would make you guys have fun running around the world all the time?
Something that would actually be fun and something you would look forward to every now and then, not something that would feel like a second job (like what Blizzard did).
Personally, I can think of a few such things that I would like to see in the game
1) First on my list is one brilliant thing which an otherwise trash mmo-rpg did that I loved. The metin stones of Metin 2.
Weird meteors that would drop randomly in each map. With a high hp pool they would drop pretty good loot when destroyed. The thing is, when attacked, they would summon all sorts of mobs (usually related to the nature of the map) to defend them.
Why I think these were great?
Because it made players want to roam around the zones all the time. The world was always alive, both in pve and pvp.
And overall, I think it was a more versatile and interesting system than simply a more powerful mob.
How could AoC implement this system?
Can think of many ways.
Have abandoned, large, transport crates that are ''cursed'' or oozing weird chemicals making nearby mobs go crazy and swarm people trying to break the crate or stuff like that.
Would be a cool thing, a cool event to have there in the world for people to know that whenever they run around for whatever reason, they could find one and get the chance at great loot.
2) Second on my list is the Dark Souls crystal lizards.
Small creatures with no offensive abilities that drop good loot. Whats the catch? When starteled, they run in a random direction and disappear if not killed fast enough.
I'd like to see something like this in AoC. A loot chest which you need to chase while risking ugly mob pulls and other enviromental dangers, for the chance of good loot.
Maybe have higher lvl ones require notable amounts of cc/an ambush/either way serious group planning to catch?
Maybe have higher lvl ones like that spawn in the middle of boss fights or sieges or stuff like that for some added flavor?
3) Okay, now, this is a classic, the loot chests from World of Warcraft plus mimics being out there in the world.
Whats in this cavern? Who knows, maybe it's a chest, lets go see.
Whats in this ruin? Who knows, maybe its a chest, lets go see.
Whats in that sunken ship? Who knows, maybe its a chest, lets go see.
Yeah, trasure chest are great. This game is going to have quite the pirate theme to it so please, let's go.
Just give it more risk and put actual traps and a chance of encountering a mimic (elite mob), for the added adventrue flavor.
So yeah, what kind of such incentive would make you guys have fun running around the world all the time?
Something that would actually be fun and something you would look forward to every now and then, not something that would feel like a second job (like what Blizzard did).
7
Comments
Good crafting gameplay loops. If done right the beautiful world and secret gathering nodes are enough for me.
Random treasure chests/mimics are ok. I despise the meteor idea. Feels video gamey comparatively.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
First is equivalent to named mobs. Even with randomized spawns for chests vs fixed spawns for named mobs, the named mobs do the job considerably better than the chests in the way you described.
Second is equivalent to BDO's 'graverobber Afuaru'. Afuaru is 'fun', but does not make things interesting and does not result in exploration, and wouldn't even if BDO were differently built. There are some underlying reasons why this sort of mob/experience is actually kind of frustrating and leads to negative behaviours if they have 'good loot'.
Third is... equivalent to any game with Treasure Chests and Mimics? If you could achieve total spawn randomization then players will just open them when they appear in convenient locations. If you curate the spawn positions/zones then similar things happen. Does not encourage exploration innately and most Explorer type players explicitly don't care about this sort of thing in the first place. Technically all it does is make non-explorers more willing to do it and create an option that is hard to balance relative to exploits. Not necessarily harmful, but not beneficial.
Do Explorer type players actually need any of this to have fun or is this a way to offer a path to persistent power for those who pursue soft-power paths? I'm sure @CROW3 and @Dygz and @SongRune know this better than I (as an economist/design/navigator type).
Stunning views and scenery. Sometimes I like to just stop and look at the view. When you know you're going to get moments like that, you like to go out and find them.
Maybe it sounds like it but it wasn't like that in practice, at least not comparable to a normal elite mob.
It was more like an event where you have to face off wave of npcs while also damaging the metin for a notable amount of time, in which you were exposed both to ''thieves'' (others coming in to do their damage for a % of drop) and pvp griefers.
So yeah it was pretty different from a normal elite, even if you made the elite into an attrition type enemy.
Personally I think it would look great as a random world reward in AoC.
I find the think-well-fast challenge a pretty fun one.
Have rarely seen people talk badly about it in the games it's been implemented into.
If you create a large enough number of possible spawn locations, there's nothing convenient about it and it gives people a reason to explore, so yeah I stand by it being a good idea.
Who said anything about explorer types?
The game should encourage everyone to discover or re-discover the explorer in him.
Also, regarding explorer types... why would they explore a place more than a couple of times if they know what they've seen is what it is and what it will always be (unless patches change that)?
The examples given are in fact more for the economist type really who would be encouraged to explore and compete actively in the world more than they would otherwise do.
Sure, your average world resource and elite mobs can do that too, but having variation is generally better.
I can, however, tell you that as an 'economist' type, none of the things mentioned are appealing to me. Take that for what you will. I personally won't explore more with those additions.
Oh? It was for 'economists'? Now I am really confused.
As an 'economist' type all I need is craftings gameplay loops to be good and gathering points to not be totally static places. Everything else you listed is pretty ignorable from an 'economists' point of view. You'd have to make the rewards so good everyone will snap them up immediately to distract them from their gameplay loop. This would presumably be a high risk PvP points 'economist' types avoid when they are in the gathering phase of their loop. Why risk your mats like that.
Similarly if they just started there is no risk other than PvP death which they account for anyway. They'd just have a small bonus doing the thing they were already doing. Unlikely to make them hunt outside their mat grounds. Doing otherwise would be taking a bigger risk for rapidly diminishing rewards as they pack on more mats.
Tl;dr none of these add to an 'economist' types gameplay loops. Whether or not it has your intended effect is personal I guess. But it definitely wouldn't effect me that way. Variety is nice but doesn't directly translate into profit aka an 'economist types' positive gameplay loop.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
i hope they will add more.
its fun. more please
Maybe I messed up what economic means.
I believed it was a person doing his best to perfect his character by focusing on item buying/making.
To be fair, even going by your definition (which I'm guessing is the correct one, sorry for earlier) aren't materials found in the world (especially rare ones) really important?
Well yeah thats the idea with trasure.
Yeah I agree and the rewards for completing them should be good too.
Well, rather than get bogged down in the definition of 'economist', I'll add at least my explicit play when in my 'economist' mode.
I perceive that aside from luck that can be really swingy, in most good MMOs, everyone makes around the same amount of profit per hour based on their skill level with their class or their artisanship, assuming a reasonable market.
Therefore the way a player like me manages is to either look for a niche that I can specialize in, that no one else cares about, or can't outcompete, or spread operations quite wide and then the 'fun' is 'adapting quickly'.
Random rare materials out in the field are exactly that. Random. They're a gamble on my time and explicitly cut into my normal gameplay loop unless I happen across them while traveling, specifically not exploring. I will not, under any circumstance 'go looking for' anything like that, for 'fun' or otherwise. My 'fun' is 'figuring out how to buy it cheaply from the person who does find it, and maximize the benefit to myself or my friends, once I have it'.
For example if it is really rare and expensive, 'having enough cash on hand to buy it outright when the player who finds it is looking for money', or 'knowing something that said player wants, that they will trade, even though the monetary value is not as good consistently'.
The things you mention would definitely have some effects on certain player types. It's that whatever you define me as (when I'm in that mood), I'm not one of them. (Technically in my other moods I won't go off a path looking for treasure either)
There's almost certainly a player type that this is 'for'. But you asked about incentives to run around the world, and for me, this ain't it. That's all I meant.
Ashes is a dynamic world. It will be incentive enough to have different villages/towns/cities popping up. Those settlements will also have new services and new buildings constructed. That will cause new mobs and world bosses and dungeons and recipes to appear.
There will be plenty to explore without special "exploration treasure".
I expect to be content with whatever mobs/treasure the devs already have in the design.
For AoC, the prize could be something to put into your house for decoration. A special item for crafting (let say a unique dye or glowing effect).
You see something shiny at the top of a mountain, and you have to figure out how to climb there. How to cross that ravine. Swim a series of underwater chambers and tunnel. Don't die in the volcano.
"And that's how, my boy, I got that strange rock you see over the fireplace."
I don't care about any of this too much one way or the other though.
Little incentives and rewards are fun. I like a good old fashioned treasure hunt in the wild, the more vague the better.
Mostly, exploration is driven by a real need to peek over the next rise, or follow some broken forest track, or understand what that weird structure is over there. It's pure curiosity. Cartography is probably the biggest incentive for me.
@Ironhope's ideas are cool. The mimic is a much appreciated deep cut.
I think it would be cool to have some of the history (even core history) of Verra be a mystery. Exploration would provide a way to understand more about what happened before we popped out of the gate. A good example of this is the mystery of the Dwemer in ES games. Skyrim had a lot of clues to be found in the high mountains and deep in the dark. But there wasn't a real answer, which only made me want to explore more and piece clues (or strings of clues) together to understand the nature of their disappearance.
Another element that would be cool are new connections between nodes using a cave system, shortcuts in the underworld, island chains, etc. Being able to craft maps that can help other citizens move quickly to a node is going to be invaluable.
Add some sunken ships, ivy covered monuments, weathered mountain ruins, and I'm a happy dwarf.
Boo for items in meteorites / Yay for materials from meteorites.
If SCRIBE makes it into the game, I've thought they should be our map-makers - for people who either have no interest in manual exploration, for for players who have already explored the world on one toon, and don't want to do it on another. Having Scribes have to run out to several different locations to renew their number of uses on crafting trade-able maps would possibly be a good way to ensure that players are trafficking the off-the-path locations around the Nodes.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Exploration
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Treasures
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/World_map
Player made artifacts, not of power, but of server history.
Same for keeps. Which guilds have had control of them. Maybe not as public in that case, got to have access of the inside.
Because the world is dynamic.
I'm very curious to see how significant changes in the world impact cartography.
Right? Dynamic but not procedural. So it would be cool if leveling cartography / treasure hunting provided a higher resolution of information from the world database that could render on the map at that time (since a map is essentially a screenshot). That could open up some possibilities for continual exploration of already discovered lands as the nodes change hands.
I like random stuff that comes and goes. That not every body can get or find and do.
Dungeons. Clusters of valuable resources. Even temporary wormholes that provided shortcuts to distant areas of the map were on offer to those willing to look for them, and they were a finite resource that would reset to new locations on a daily basis, requiring a constant need for continued exploration.
Would be fantastic if Ashes offered something similar for those dedicated to exploration - the ability for those who explore to be able to create maps that can be sold off or traded to guide players to hard to find locations of value. Lots of potential opportunity for dedicated cartography, with dynamic changing maps, resources that might potentially be exhausted in one location and pop up in another, remote dungeons, need for up-to-date intelligence on enemy supply routes and camps, or simply crafters wanting to advertise the location of their Freehold to select clientele.
This is a good point.
An archeology profession (not a lazy one like what WoW did) that allows you to dig up parts of the game's history and rewards you for putting them all together in a ''detective mini-game'' or something like that would be awesome.
Maybe if they can't put it in the fresh on release game, they could put it in an expansion.
I think it would be awesome for players to discover the story themselves and make theories on it, instead of having the developers baby spoon-feed them the story in detail.
''To dungeons deep and caverns old''
Let's make Tolkein proud