Class mastery system?

Because of all the debates going around on multiple threads right now about whether certain combinations of X/Y or Y/X can perform certain roles. It made me wonder if there's some kind of mastery system for players to work towards to show that they are capable of a certain job with a certain class.

What I'm thinking of is some sort of mix between what League of Legends has for certain champion masteries or akin to what raider.io has. (Despite my dislike for what it has done to the game)
Let's say a rogue/tank is not supposed to be able to main tank. But I devise a build and playstyle that makes it more than capable of being able to tank. Will there be any kind of system that allows me to show that I have X experience with tanking and I have completed Y dungeons and downed Z bosses with this rogue/tank build. Or that I have successfully defended x many caravans. So when someone says we're looking for a tank for our group I can throw down "references" to show that I am more than capable to do what they're looking for?

Have they ever discussed something like this and I missed it? Is this the type of thing that someone would be interested in?

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Dygz

There's been no talk of that from the devs, but...
I think, in Ashes, you will have a fairly large number of people who know who you are.
Village/City/Metro/Castle...
If you can make a Ranger/Tank who can consistently main tank successfully - people will know.
Your reputation will spread.

SirChancelot

That would be awesome and all... but I also kind of feel like ashes is going to have the population per server to where one (even a rare combo someone created) can get lost in the many.

I think it would be nice to have some kind of stat board for my character that I could share. Kind of like FFXIV hunter log, but able to show how many kills ive gotten in certain dungeons or zones(broken down by role or it doesn't help the claim)

I've spent very little time on BDO, but doesn't it have a enemy experience tracker kind of thing?

George_Black

These tags and labels belong to instanced pve mmos. They serve two purposes:
Eliminate social interaction
Provide shallow achievement/title content.

How about you spend time actually getting to know people and their ability, instead of grouping up with the "tank master" for 20mins behave like npcs and then never seeing them again?

I remember from the times of the first ESO dlc. I would just link my achievement and get invited to a group. Similalry if I was looking for someone to fill a role I would just demand they show the relevant achievement.

5 recent years of eso and I dont remember any players names. Yet I still remember countless player names from L2 2003-2009 and the things we did while grouping or fighting against.
0 achievement/title bullshiet.

SirChancelot

@George Black
I agree to some extent. I'm not a fan of the culture of "Link achievement" or the impact that raider.IO has had on the social aspect of wow.

Is there some kind of Middle ground? Something where you can show your mastery or your capability with a certain class or at a role without it devolving into a "you must be this tall to ride" and people being dick heads about it if you don't have the achievement (which ultimately just alienates new people to the game)

That's also why I referenced LoL as one of my examples. For those that don't moba: each character and role you can take on the battlefield have certain criteria that would get you "points" during a game. At the end of the game it awards you a grade based on how optimally you played your character at their role. Different grades give you mastery points towards leveling up your mastery with a certain character or at a certain role (although they have kind of pulled back on the role version).
It doesn't give you anything or do anything for you but it can let others know that I've played this champion a lot and I know how to fight with them, or I know how to jungle or supp well...

George_Black

There is no middle group.
People either look for the mastery icon and stick only with the masters or the game protects its social aspect by not implementing these ideas.

Speaking of lol and all these little features, dont kid yourself. They are not there to show whos good and who isnt.
It's a carrot in a stick, constant progress to keep people addicted to something that has no real impact on the gameplay.

Back with dota 1 there was non of that crap. No mastery/keystone pages or whatever LoL is doing now.
You just started the game, had your fun and hit "Exit". Nothing to unlock, nothing to spend non-fun hours to achieve.

That is what I call shallow content. I would prefer the developers focus on gameplay systems and action rather than logbooks, achievement checklists and other stuff like that, that nobody cares about. Not even you will care about if you look back how much time you spend on doing something meaningless just so that you get a golden star.

I would rather help new guildmates get their gear than trying to get a no death run with the established members.

maouw

George Black wrote: »

These tags and labels belong to instanced pve mmos. They serve two purposes:
Eliminate social interaction
Provide shallow achievement/title content.

How about you spend time actually getting to know people and their ability, instead of grouping up with the "tank master" for 20mins behave like npcs and then never seeing them again?

I remember from the times of the first ESO dlc. I would just link my achievement and get invited to a group. Similalry if I was looking for someone to fill a role I would just demand they show the relevant achievement.

5 recent years of eso and I dont remember any players names. Yet I still remember countless player names from L2 2003-2009 and the things we did while grouping or fighting against.
0 achievement/title bullshiet.

I never thought about this until you said it.

SirChancelot

I mean the original dota was a tower defense game... Not much else to do there.

Judging from the people that like to go around and get old achievements in wow. Or just achievements in general for any video game that some players like to collect. I wouldn't say nobody cares...

But you're probably right, it would just devolve into looking for the icon or ignoring the person.

Maybe if they were something that most people could achieve rather than driven by volume of content?
Like the role challenges in mop or the role training things in FFXIV. Take your character and run through all these trials as a tank and get your "I know how to tank badge"? Or "competent healer for group content" badge

I mean that would make sense roleplay wise too. An adventurers guild would have an entrance exam.

bloodprophet

If you watch the video I linked Kevin Jordan and Chris they talk about the training grounds and how it failed at the intent and just became meh content.

SirChancelot

I guess it's just what he said that kind of made the problem worse...

George Black wrote: »

There is no middle group.
People either look for the mastery icon and stick only with the masters or the game protects its social aspect by not implementing these ideas.

Wow never implemented anything like that(well I guess they finally caved two months ago but whatever) the point is the community made raiderIO and the heavy attachment to it without blizzard ever supporting that.
What's to prevent the same thing from happening in ashes?
When players are looking to pug a group or find one extra person to round out their party, what will the metric be. How will you as party leader decide who to choose?

Dygz

We have villages/towns/cities/metros with open world housing.
We will know where people live and know how the characters in our home Nodes play.
And we will talk about how the individuals we know succeeded or failed at their endeavors.

In WoW, you don't have to talk to anyone because everyone is doing the same exact stuff.
And the world is mostly static.
In Ashes, we're going to want to know who won the Castle/Node Siege and how they did it.
We will want to know who we can depend on to help defend the Node from a Monster Coin attack.
If people see a Rogue/Tank main tanking a boss that's attacking the town, they will probably remember that and tell other people. "I thought Rogue/Tanks couldn't main tank, but SirChancelot11 found a way to do that when the Winter Dragon attacked DryThorne a couple days ago!"
You might even score an interview with a content creator.

Unless it actually turns out to be so common that it's not worth talking about.

SirChancelot

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

Khronus

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

The game is going to be very social. Guilds will have black lists that will actually hurt the gameplay for some people who mess up and are too toxic, murder the wrong person, camp players, etc. The overall feel is VERY much like vanilla wow where it mattered how you acted. People asked a question in general chat and they got answers. They weren't trolled for not googling it or not knowing it. This is the number one reason why I am so interested in AoC. The social aspect is something long missing from mmos.

Gizban

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

Interjecting here, do pardon.

Ashes isn't going to necessarily create social gamers, instead its going to draw them by the way its being made.

All citizens of a town have a vested interest in empowering their town/node, and protecting their town/node. They have a personal ownership and stake in its success, and with open world pvp, community trust will actually mean something.

What if Bobthewarrior1 decides to attack CrafterJimjim while hes out collecting mats?
Not much.
Now suppose Bobthewarrior1 and Crafterjimjim are in the same town/node? Bobthewarrior1 has just been put on a kill list by Crafterjimjim's guild, and Bobthewarrior1's life just got a lot harder.

Ownership and personal stake coupled with exterior threats move players towards interdependence and mutual regard, and now we have community.

Dygz

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

Again, I think that's because there's nothing to talk about.
Everyone is doing the same stuff in a static world.
When villages, towns and cities are being constructed and destroyed, there's stuff to talk about.
When new dungeons are appearing and new bosses causing trouble in the world - there's stuff to talk about.

How can we coordinate to oust the crappy Monarch whose had control of the Castle for the past 3 months??

Percimes

Khronus wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

The game is going to be very social. Guilds will have black lists that will actually hurt the gameplay for some people who mess up and are too toxic, murder the wrong person, camp players, etc. The overall feel is VERY much like vanilla wow where it mattered how you acted. People asked a question in general chat and they got answers. They weren't trolled for not googling it or not knowing it. This is the number one reason why I am so interested in AoC. The social aspect is something long missing from mmos.

So people will alt-tab to check their guild's book of grudges every time they see someone new in the area? With server pop going between 15k and 50k? With every player able to create alts?

You people are funny in the grandeur of your expectations at times.

SirChancelot

Percimes wrote: »

Khronus wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You really think this game is going to be that talkative and social?
Or do you just hope it is?
Not a jab, legit question... Because most people these days aren't like that just in general

The game is going to be very social. Guilds will have black lists that will actually hurt the gameplay for some people who mess up and are too toxic, murder the wrong person, camp players, etc. The overall feel is VERY much like vanilla wow where it mattered how you acted. People asked a question in general chat and they got answers. They weren't trolled for not googling it or not knowing it. This is the number one reason why I am so interested in AoC. The social aspect is something long missing from mmos.

So people will alt-tab to check their guild's book of grudges every time they see someone new in the area? With server pop going between 15k and 50k? With every player able to create alts?

You people are funny in the grandeur of your expectations at times.

I really don't think this game is going to be alt friendly in the slightest...

Nerror

Percimes wrote: »

So people will alt-tab to check their guild's book of grudges every time they see someone new in the area? With server pop going between 15k and 50k? With every player able to create alts?

You people are funny in the grandeur of your expectations at times.

Strawman argument and missing the point.

Things are likely more fuzzy in metropolis areas, especially if near one of the 4 starting portals, but even there you can absolutely make a name for yourself without needing achievements to prove it. Or act like an ass and feel the consequences.

This is not a new concept, it's been done in many MMOs with thousands of people per server. Not everyone will know everyone obviously, but we don't need that either. In Ashes we are divided up into nodes, and because travel takes hours from one end of the map to the other, people are staying local for most of the time. Which means dealing with hundreds of players instead of thousands.

@George Black makes a really good point here, but if you've never played an MMORPG where your rep really mattered on the server, I don't blame you for not knowing or understanding.

Percimes

Nerror wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

So people will alt-tab to check their guild's book of grudges every time they see someone new in the area? With server pop going between 15k and 50k? With every player able to create alts?

You people are funny in the grandeur of your expectations at times.

Strawman argument and missing the point.

Things are likely more fuzzy in metropolis areas, especially if near one of the 4 starting portals, but even there you can absolutely make a name for yourself without needing achievements to prove it. Or act like an ass and feel the consequences.

This is not a new concept, it's been done in many MMOs with thousands of people per server. Not everyone will know everyone obviously, but we don't need that either. In Ashes we are divided up into nodes, and because travel takes hours from one end of the map to the other, people are staying local for most of the time. Which means dealing with hundreds of players instead of thousands.

Yes, but it also means if you are willing to relocate you can, I won't say reset or ignore the consequences, but you can be surrounded by a new set of hundred of people untouched yet by your fame of infamy. Unless you step on the toes of a streamer or do something truly exceptional, server recognition will be hard to achieve.

Dygz

It's not even so much server recognition as it is village/town/city/metro recognition.
Even as you relocate, people in your Node who play at the same time you do will probably know who you are and interact with you fairly frequently.
You will probably have questions to ask the locals and stories to share.

George_Black

Nerror you exaggerate the gravity nodes will have over players. Most certainly people will know others by the thousands instead of hundreds.

It has been said that each area on the world map will have a limited selection of raw materials. Players will be travelling all over the map.

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