I hope AoC won't be completely figured out even before it releases like New World was.

Ironhope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kioumWRu_Y

Okay so I'll say right off the bat that I know virtually nothing about game designs, coding or anything like that.
I also know there have been threads about new world recently on the forum and I admit I haven't read them all so I hope this isn't redundant, but even if it is, I think it's a really important point and discussing it in particular could be a good idea.

But I know what happened to New World is not good for the game.

In a very profound sense the game was ''old'' before it even came out.

I, personally, while knowing very little about game design, think the open unlimited beta was a very bad idea.

I would see why some could see it as a good idea (''well yeah, that's why you get a beta, to work out bugs and see if things work properly in player hands'') but I still think its a bad idea and I think a closed, friends-and-familly or paid-tester beta would be much better.

I know WoW had a very limited beta and things worked out... well, I don't have to say to anyone how they worked out.

I would like to see AoC's release, whenever that is, 2024, 2025, 2028, to be something actually new and exiting.

I imagine most of you guys would too.

What do you guys actually think?

McShave

I agree that Intrepid should not put the entire game in the betas. If the beta has every node location that will be in the actual game release that will be bad. Steven has said that they will move around the node locations before release tho, so I am not worried. Also they should probably limit character level so that players can't test out full builds.

The bigger problem with New World is that it's a very small experience compared to what Ashes intends to be. New World was figured out because there is not much to it. Very linear quests, a handful of small dungeons, a very repetitive PvP battleground, and a lack of character combat "builds".

I think Ashes will be much more complex because of the node system. It will be very unlikely that any beta server will progress the way a full release server will progress. We won't know where everything is or the best path to get to a certain point in character progression since it will depend on what the server's political environment is like.

With Ashes' "64 classes", it will be a lot more complicated when it comes to figuring out the "best build" and it will depend on group composition and what opponent you are fighting. With only 6 abilities and basic armor stats, New World just doesn't have the complexity to have an in-depth and interesting combat system.

clone63

Unless they keep it behind very well locked closed doors, most of the goods will be spilled before official release, especially the way they've been selling access etc.. It is the information age. I don't think there's much that can be done. Best case, Alpha 2/ Beta ante up a limited, controlled amount of geography and races (not classes, those should be tested) so there is at least 'world' to be discovered.
If you want it to be new, simply don't read what you don't want to know. There can be a feeling of lagging or being left behind, but I think that is kind of an insecure way to approach a game. I guess with PvP focus, the competitive nature sparks that in people, but when you sit down to play a board game with friends, you don't google the best strategies; you read the rules and play together... You don't read book synopses before reading the book-- what would be the point? Just play it, experience it, research just what you need to know (is healing viable if you're bent on healing, is fishing etc....)

Sathrago

clone63 wrote: »

Unless they keep it behind very well locked closed doors, most of the goods will be spilled before official release, especially the way they've been selling access etc.. It is the information age. I don't think there's much that can be done. Best case, Alpha 2/ Beta ante up a limited, controlled amount of geography and races (not classes, those should be tested) so there is at least 'world' to be discovered.
If you want it to be new, simply don't read what you don't want to know. There can be a feeling of lagging or being left behind, but I think that is kind of an insecure way to approach a game. I guess with PvP focus, the competitive nature sparks that in people, but when you sit down to play a board game with friends, you don't google the best strategies; you read the rules and play together... You don't read book synopses before reading the book-- what would be the point? Just play it, experience it, research just what you need to know (is healing viable if you're bent on healing, is fishing etc....)

This is just false. Take FF14 for example, we are closer and closer to the release of the new expansion and overall people are only receiving the information that Square Enix is letting out.

The key is to have a great internal testing team. That is how you keep information from being data mined like the beaten dead horse that wow is.

Talents

A lot of stuff will be figured out, that's something you can't stop when you have an open development. They've said that they won't show everything since not everything needs to be directly tested by players so I wouldn't expect it to be 100% solved like New World, but there will still be guides for a lot of stuff before release.

Ironhope

Talents wrote: »

A lot of stuff will be figured out, that's something you can't stop when you have an open development. They've said that they won't show everything since not everything needs to be directly tested by players so I wouldn't expect it to be 100% solved like New World, but there will still be guides for a lot of stuff before release.

I mean, I'm sure some stuff will be figured out but the devs should try to limit this as much as possible.

New World ended up where it did because it esentially gave people the completed game a good while before the launch and some people just neckbeareded the hell out of it and mapped it out to the letter long before it came out.

So yeah, wouldn't a very limited beta (like WoW had before release), with most of the actual testing being done by paid testers/friends-and-familly, help a lot in this sense?

CROW3

Sathrago wrote: »

This is just false. Take FF14 for example, we are closer and closer to the release of the new expansion and overall people are only receiving the information that Square Enix is letting out.

Great example, @Sathrago - I mean FFXIV is 'a realm reborn' because its initial launch was a quintessential clusterfuck. And yet, the game was entirely reworked then rereleased and today is pretty close to eclipsing wow on overall subs. So I think the checklist for what makes a 'dead game' is a little less discrete and a little more squishy than we think.

Nerror

A ton of stuff about classes and crafting and such will be theory-crafted and well documented before launch. There is no getting around that with the open development.

However, Ashes has a huge advantage compared to New World when it comes to this whole thing: It's not a static world. Every server will be different, with different content opening up and closing depending on player actions and the status of all the nodes. Different monster spawns and quite possibly somewhat different crafting resources. Most guides for levelling and blitzing through content can only be general in nature because of this. Every server will have different "optimal ways of doing things", and even if a guide is written per server, things will change all the time.

The way the world is dynamically shaped by the node system in very big ways "protects" the game from being figured out to some extent. But again, some things will be figured out for sure. Steven has said that a lot of the lore is withheld for release, so that helps as well.

granthor

As long as this game is 10x better than what Ultima Online gave us, it should be fine in the long run. A good balance of player controlled areas, with workers and adventurers, plus toss in good content and stories. it's a win/ win all around.

JamesSunderland

There will always be information leaks and data mines that can provide huge knowledge advantages, but a game being solved fast or not is more of a matter of systems complexity.
McShave gave 2 excelent examples of systems complexity disparity between NW and Ashes, those being the Class System and the Node System.
Those 2 systems alone are enough to make me believe that the possibility of Ashes being "solved" or "figured out" before release is very unlikely.