Actually Noaani its you that has been belittling, rude and confrontational. You do not read, you cut and pase words to aggrevate people. Its already posted by me what the problem is, why the problem is probably an oversight, how to easily fix this and that i have a working solution for myself.
Yet you in your first post already started belittleing, that, "there are better and cheaper solutions to my problem of wich you have absolutely no knowledge.
Your a rude, callous and toxic person, and dare i say it quite a megalomaniac. Please remove yourself from this topic, your input is not wanted nor needed anymore
On my side I am assuming they looked and are having trouble
Why would you assume this?
Is it because they have an impairment and so you think less of them for it? Because that is how it comes across.
You seem to be saying "you have an impairment that you know more about than I ever will, but since I don't have that impairment, I assume you need my assistance to do this basic google search of a word I don't even know but you do".
Honestly, that is how it comes across.
Oh you are no longer having a genuine discussion now? You are the one assuming I would be giving resources beyond a basic google search. Lot's of projection going on here. Have a good day mate.
As part of the website revamp, the forums will also get visually reworked. I don't know if this will include aids for visually impaired people and when exactly those changes will roll out, but it's definitely on the roadmap.
Will the forum visual rework let us keep the low-contrast style? I like greyish backgrounds because it's easier on the eyes. High-contrast and bright background color can give people headaches and strain eyes.
Will the forum visual rework let us keep the low-contrast style? I like greyish backgrounds because it's easier on the eyes. High-contrast and bright background color can give people headaches and strain eyes.
As I said, I don't know what exactly will change with the revamp, just that it will happen at some point in the future.
Best you can do is to wait and see for yourself.
On my side I am assuming they looked and are having trouble
Why would you assume this?
Is it because they have an impairment and so you think less of them for it? Because that is how it comes across.
You seem to be saying "you have an impairment that you know more about than I ever will, but since I don't have that impairment, I assume you need my assistance to do this basic google search of a word I don't even know but you do"
Honestly, that is how it comes across.
Oh you are no longer having a genuine discussion now? You are the one assuming I would be giving resources beyond a basic google search. Lot's of projection going on here. Have a good day mate.
Not at all.
First, I specified a google search - I never once said anything about more than that. The record of what I said is above, feel free to point out where I said what you are claiming I said.
You presented me with a hypothetical situation. I told you what I would do in that situation, and why I wouldn't do more than that.
You said that this basically amounted to me telling that person to "git gud", and that you would belittle the hypothetical person in question by assuming that they were unable to perform basic tasks on their own - and that somehow this was the right thing to do.
If you don't want someone to tell you what they would do in a hypothetical situation, don't present them with one. If you don't want people to defend what they would do in a hypothetical situation, don't attack what they say it is that they would do.
And also, hypothetical situation or not, don't treat people with impairments as if we are unable to do things our selves.
What you think of as you being polite comes across as you being patronizing.
And also, hypothetical situation or not, don't treat people with impairments as if we are unable to do things our selves.
What you think of as you being polite comes across as you being patronizing.
You missed some context to the hypothetical. I'm not going to bother to address the rest of your rant as you are clearly upset. So I will clarify the part that might get you to cool down, maybe.
The context that you missed that I thought was clear was this hypothetical kid is making a thread complaining about an accessibility issue/flaw in the forum. Exactly like the op. Granted I never said this explicitly since I thought it would be clear that I was carrying over context from the previous conversation to said hypothetical.
When someone makes a post for a complaint on a public forum, impairment or not, they are either asking for visibility, commiseration, or working out/seeking solutions. They are not asking for a debate on the 'trueness of the problem' nor 'criticism on their problem solving process.' That may be what they get, but it is not why /they/ are there. When they are seeking that it's usually said explicitly.
So, if you think it's patronizing to offer solutions to someone literally complaining about an issue they have said they tried solving and had difficulty solving it, when the hell is it not. When someone is complaining about a problem and their standard solutions nor working why are YOU assuming they haven't 'done a basic google search.'
Anyway that is all I have to offer you. I am sorry, genuinely no sarc , that I was not clear enough for you. That is definitely on me. Your reaction on the other hand is jumping to the worst possible conclusion about my own character and intentions when I have made a larger effort than usual to have a level headed conversation with you despite you saying some fairly obnoxious and rude things to people in general. So consider me no longer interested in continuing further.
The context that you missed that I thought was clear was this hypothetical kid is making a thread complaining about an accessibility issue/flaw in the forum.
I made that assumption.
Here's the thing though. If they are having an issue with this website, they will have some sort of issue with around 50% of all websites. The "issue" the OP is talking about is not specific to this website, and a proper fix for the issue on one site works in all sites.
The issue he talks about that he says makes it more difficult are only for work arounds to the issue, not to actual fixes. This is something I assume you don't understand, and other than saying someone with a real issue would use a fix, where someone that has a preference would use a work around, I don't see the point in going in to more detail than that here (if you have no issues in this regard, you have no reason to understand, so this is not me having a go at you).
This is why the best thing this 14 year old can do is to find a community of people with the same issue they have, people that have already found a solution to the problem that works on every website. A robust solution, not something fragile like the OP says he himself does not use
As such, the best suggestion for this person is for them to find a solution that works for them - and the best way for them to do so is to find people with similar issues and ask what they do.
This is why it is what I would suggest to this hypothetical person. I would not offer further assistance than that because it would come across as belittling, as I said earlier. But further to that point, you can't even attempt to help this person without asking them to go in to somewhat personal medical details that they may not want to go in to on the internet, and that you absolutely should not be trying to get out of a 14 year old.
Where you are right is in that it is not an easy solution to solve on one's own. That is why I am not suggesting this. I am suggesting they try and find others that have the same issue as they do.
It is quite likely that this person may have attempted to find a solution on their own, and failed miserably. I don't for a second doubt this is possible (it is probable, imo).
What is very unlikely though, is that a person that is able to find this games website was unable to find an online community of people that share the same visual impairment that they have, if they looked for it.
As such, the kostnplauaable scenario for the 14 year old that you gave was that they attempted to find a fix on their own, failed, and never actually considered looking for that online community in the first place.
So again, the best thing to do for them is to suggest they look for it - as I have been saying.
Here's the thing though. If they are having an issue with this website, they will have some sort of issue with around 50% of all websites. The "issue" the OP is talking about is not specific to this website, and a proper fix for the issue on one site works in all sites.
No its not, this issue has actually NEVER cropped up before. Why, because 95% of the websites keep the textfield the standard black and white,, or other high contrast to make it easier to read. All others have not been hard coded. This is the first time i encounter a hard coded font color that my browser can't override, combined with for me an unreadable font. (but theres the good old manual highlighting that still works)
The issue he talks about that he says makes it more difficult are only for work arounds to the issue, not to actual fixes. This is something I assume you don't understand, and other than saying someone with a real issue would use a fix, where someone that has a preference would use a work around, I don't see the point in going in to more detail than that here (if you have no issues in this regard, you have no reason to understand, so this is not me having a go at you).
Again you assume things without asking, or knowing the specifics about. Justvine's posts indicate that he has a better grasp of what my issue is.
This is why the best thing this 14 year old can do is to find a community of people with the same issue they have, people that have already found a solution to the problem that works on every website. A robust solution, not something fragile like the OP says he himself does not use
A 14 year old does not want to be pampered. He does not want the help of others. You try to do it yourself, and if it fails you get angry, at others, at yourself, but most of all at your condition. You don't think rational then. You are angry all the time. And rightfully so. At least i know i was. And you know what makes the 14 year old, (and the adult sitting here) the most angry? People like you that think they know better. Think they experiance the same, and assume that we haven't tried thousands of tools, gadgets or other ways to make things easier and accessible.
As such, the best suggestion for this person is for them to find a solution that works for them - and the best way for them to do so is to find people with similar issues and ask what they do.
No the best response is actually to give awnsers to what hes asking for, or if he's complaining about something, acknowledge that you heared him and inform him if / when a fix is comming. Sometimes a fix is not comming, sometimes you have to deal with it. But its ALWAYS better that they tell you that then saying: There are solutions to your problem you should look better.
This is why it is what I would suggest to this hypothetical person. I would not offer further assistance than that because it would come across as belittling, as I said earlier. But further to that point, you can't even attempt to help this person without asking them to go in to somewhat personal medical details that they may not want to go in to on the internet, and that you absolutely should not be trying to get out of a 14 year old.
You haven't offered assistance, you're replies result only in angerment people with serious impairments don't need that kind of "help" they need exactly what they ask for, nothing more nothing less. Its infuriating that people ALWAYS assume that your stupid / can't do stuff because you have an impairment.
Where you are right is in that it is not an easy solution to solve on one's own. That is why I am not suggesting this. I am suggesting they try and find others that have the same issue as they do.
Again wrong. Most issues have a simple solution. In this case 2
1) don't hard code the colors
2) choose a different color
People with impairments have lots of tools and trusted people that they can turn to for help. We don't need some random stranger to tell "your tools are wrong, there are better or cheaper versions." Or "your group of people around you that support you aren't good enough, you should look for other / more of them."
My issue and question has been solved by Shadonsol, a revamp of the website is comming, and the forums will be amoung them. When is unknown. I'm certain that due to being aware of the issue, one of the 2 options a) higher contrast color or b) not hard locked color will most likely be present. And if not, myself or someone else will undoubtedly call them out on it.
It is quite likely that this person may have attempted to find a solution on their own, and failed miserably. I don't for a second doubt this is possible (it is probable, imo).
Online interactions you don't often reveal problems like this. Just like you have your favorite browser and settings, plugins etc, So do we. In 99.9% of the cases there is no problem, cause our settings have solved them before were even been made aware of them. the other 0.09% of the time we need to launch an additional tool and then the 0.01% if that fails we need to resort to reveal we have a problem. Do you think i like having to reveal that i have a weakness, that ignorent people can easily hook in on to make you, or your day feel worse? ofcourse not. You seem to think its the first resort we use, while its the utter last resort.
What is very unlikely though, is that a person that is able to find this games website was unable to find an online community of people that share the same visual impairment that they have, if they looked for it.
As such, the kostnplauaable scenario for the 14 year old that you gave was that they attempted to find a fix on their own, failed, and never actually considered looking for that online community in the first place.
So again, the best thing to do for them is to suggest they look for it - as I have been saying.
Your so full of yourself to think that you can give advice thats better then the dozens of doctors / professional caretakers that come accross these kinds of questions and issues on a daily basis. You think you know better then me what my problem is. You think you know better then me or those who help me what to use to solve the problem, and all that without even understanding the problem or what my impairment actually is, nor the tools that i have to my disposl.
In your case the best way to describe you is this statement:
A stupid person doesn't know how stupid he is.
Here's the thing though. If they are having an issue with this website, they will have some sort of issue with around 50% of all websites. The "issue" the OP is talking about is not specific to this website, and a proper fix for the issue on one site works in all sites.
No its not, this issue has actually NEVER cropped up before. Why, because 95% of the websites keep the textfield the standard black and white
Please note, I didn't say that if they are having this issue here, they will have the same issue with 50% of all websites - I said they will have SOME SORT of issue.
A 14 year old does not want to be pampered. He does not want the help of others. You try to do it yourself, and if it fails you get angry, at others, at yourself, but most of all at your condition. You don't think rational then. You are angry all the time. And rightfully so. At least i know i was. And you know what makes the 14 year old, (and the adult sitting here) the most angry? People like you that think they know better. Think they experiance the same, and assume that we haven't tried thousands of tools, gadgets or other ways to make things easier and accessible.
I am not at all suggesting this hypothetical person - whom I assume has tried to find a solution all by them self, and failed, then got frustrated at them self and their impairment - should go and look for a tool to do what they want to do. I have been VERY clear about this. In fact, this is the suggestion the other poster (the one you think seems to understand you better) is trying to do.
I am fully aware that our hypothetical 14 year old has probably tried to come up with a solution and failed - and I have said that only a few posts above.
My suggest is, and always was, to suggest to that 14 year old that they find a community of people in a similar situation to them self, and talk to people there about solutions.
I'm not offering a tool, nor am I offering to help out with an issue that I know nothing about (because I know I know nothing about it, even if I know a lot about a similar issue).
Online interactions you don't often reveal problems like this. Just like you have your favorite browser and settings, plugins etc, So do we. In 99.9% of the cases there is no problem, cause our settings have solved them before were even been made aware of them. the other 0.09% of the time we need to launch an additional tool and then the 0.01% if that fails we need to resort to reveal we have a problem. Do you think i like having to reveal that i have a weakness, that ignorent people can easily hook in on to make you, or your day feel worse? ofcourse not. You seem to think its the first resort we use, while its the utter last resort.
Have you forgotten that I am talking about our hypothetical 14 year old here? The one that doesn't have these tools yet, that needs help in getting them more than they need help with any one website?
If that 14 year old that I am talking about had that community support, they would have that solution - just as you have your solution.
This is why I am not trying to offer direct help to them, but rather suggesting they find a community of people that can offer far more help than I could ever provide for them.
Your so full of yourself to think that you can give advice thats better then the dozens of doctors / professional caretakers that come accross these kinds of questions and issues on a daily basis.
Again, I am not trying to give any advice.
I am trying to get this 14 year old to find a community of people with a similar condition (which likely also has specialists of the condition giving advice, as well as people that have been living with it for their whole life).
I completely agree that you would need to be full of yourself to think you could help someone with a condition you have no real idea about (no offence to those that think they could - you mean well but are just outright wrong). This is why my suggestion was not to offer help, but to suggest they find a community of people with the same issue.
The above is four either misconceptions on your part, or three cases of an attempt to purposely misrepresent what was said in order to support your case. I'm not sure which of these it is, though you will no doubt read this and know straight away whether you have purposely misrepresented what I said, or you will know that you did not purposely misrepresent what I said and as such are just gravely mistaken in your understanding of the recent discussion.
So, you think I am full of myself, callous, what ever. That's fine, I don't much care what you think.
However, based on this post above, I want to ask you directly what is wrong with what I would do in this situation.
The situation is a 4 year old coming to a website (any website) and complaining that it isn't friendly towards their specific impairment, an impairment that I know for a fact that there are tools out there to help with. My answer to this person isn't to offer hem help on something I know little about, or to brush them and their impairment off, it is to suggest they find a community of people with the same impairment, so that they can get some real, useful advice.
You've attacked me somewhat directly in your above post, you've attacked my position. As such, you now need to back up your attack on me by saying what is wrong with suggesting that 14 year old look for that community - the one that has people that have lived with this condition their whole life, and likely has specialists spending time there a well.
Go on, tell me what is wrong with that. You've already attacked my position and called me full of myself for having this position...
You've attacked me somewhat directly in your above post, you've attacked my position. As such, you now need to back up your attack on me by saying what is wrong with suggesting that 14 year old look for that community - the one that has people that have lived with this condition their whole life, and likely has specialists spending time there a well.
.
Because your ignorant. You don't know how difficult it is for people with this kind of condition to even navigate the internet in the first place. I'll tell you what the journey is to even get on such a website for a 14 year old and maybe then you'll be less ignorant and realise that beeing able to post exactly what is wrong in detail is a unique acomplishment.
Step 1) Convince your parents / guardians that you will be able to use a computer, and that its not a waste of money. Taking care of someone with impairments costs a lot of money, trowing a few hundred to thousand(s) of dollars away for a computer is likely not in their budget.
Often the parents / guardians already have a computer if so go directly to step 2
Step 2) Creating a user profile that you can actually navigate your computer. The standard settings are to small / similar colord to be able to properly see, so you need someone else to do this for you until you have satisfatory settings. This takes time and a lot of patience, since its difficult to describe what you want if you don't know / can read what the options are.
Step 3) you've got a computer that you can navigate great, now you need additional help because the standard browsers don't have nearly enough settings to work for you. If your lucky then you have a proffesional caretaker that knows tools and browsers for you to use, but using that caretaker for that costs money and there not cheap so often the parents / guardian will do that. Because they don't know what they are searching for, and you don't know yet what you need, its searching for long hours and testing out a lot of different browsers. But eventually you find one thats customizable enough for you to work.
STep 4) A lot of sites are not compatible for your viewing / browser, you need plugins to be able to emulate different media, and screensizes. then a lot of the laws prevent you from adjusting certain things, so you need a crawler, you need a working vpn in some cases, and you need to finetune these plugins. At this time you've spend hours if not days already trying to get things to work. it has costed you quite some money already, since most of these custom browsers aren't cheap, and if you used your paid caretaker he doesn't work for free. If its your parents / guardian, they probably are on the end of their nerves already, if the've not given up entirely.
Step 5) Get notice of the game. Some games are totally unplayable. Some seem obvious but even the simplest games can sometimes bedifficult to play. So you see / hear about a game that could potentially be something you can play. You conclude that you can, so your eager to ask your questions and talk to the community. Excited to play the (existing or upcomming) game. Luckily most questions are in the FAQ, and others are in other parts that you can find. But there are still some questions. You want to ask them, go to the forums, and then start typing.
This is od, there are no letters forming? you dont'know if your in the correct field, so you move your mouse trying to find where the curser is. You click the text field, and start typing again. Still nothing. You have to go ask your parent/ guardian to see whats wrong, they haing good eye sight say theres nothing wrong. Your confused. Has my eyes gone even worse? why can't i see, you panic a bit, and then start testing more things. and finally find out that its a color that you can't see. Ok i got tool A for that. I'll fix that.
Error. Tool B then? Error Tool C Error you go trough all your current tools and they are many. Nothing works. So you go search for the problem. Is your browser / tools out of date? you update them. Still nothing. You go to search the problem, and finally you come up with a solution that is old school but works. At least now you can see what you can type.
Ofcourse you've forgotten your initial question by now, your angry frustrated, why does it have to be so hard, i just want to play this game. So you go back to the forums and complain. You omit that you've spend hours of testing to fix it, because you know whats causing the problem. You explain the issue tell them what your complaint is, and after a reply you even specify options. Some offer different solutions to see it, you ignore them cause they don't know how much time you've already spent in getting things in working order for you. You just want the devs to be aware of the issue, and wonder if its an oversight or not. Because if its not an oversight, then your afraid these kinds of problems will be troughout the game and it will make the game unplayable for you.
And then you come in and offer your "Advice"
I hope your a little less ignorant of the hurdles now, and understand my spirited response.
Ps: Myself i was 12 when my parents bought a pc after 2 years of begging and pleading. Mom Dad, i thank you for the countless of hours that you spend learning how to use it so you could teach me. And even the countless more hours of helping me with my problems whatever they were. Thanks to you i've been able to work in ICT for 11 years now, but each time i try a new game, i'm back beeing that 12 year old boy, and enjoying the hell out of it.
Edit: In case you haven't realized by now, your "Hypothetical" situation is daily life for me
In case you haven't realized by now, your "Hypothetical" situation is daily life for me
I realized this with the OP. It doesn't change my point.
Depending on what your impairment is (I'm not asking, I don't care), there probably would not have been online communities for it 20 or so years ago when this may have applied to you. Your parents had to do things the hard way. Sucks for you, sucks more for them.
Now, however, that 14 year old will have these communities, communities filled with people like yourself, who they can use as resources to get information from. I should note, I am somewhat surprised you seem to not already frequent such a community - you would do more good for people in your situation from within such a community than you would by posting that individual websites should change things.
So, while you are sitting here and saying I am being ignorant, what I am really saying is that should someone with the same impairment as you come to these forums, they should talk to you - or someone like you - and not me.
Wow, what an absolute dick that makes me - suggesting people go to places where they can find actual information to actually help them with actual issues they actually have, knowing full well that me attempting to help them any more than that is a waste of their time as well as mine, and likely makes the person feel belittled.
I get you're pissed off at something. That's fine. However, take a look at what it is I am saying here - an objective look. I am saying that someone with an impairment should talk to others with the same impairment in order to get advice and tips on how to better do things that the impairment in question makes more difficult.
I am saying this, and you are calling me ignorant (among other things) for saying this. Are you saying that this 14 year old should not seek out others with this same impairment in order to find real and actual assistance? Or are you just bitter because these communities didn't exist when you were younger?
I never said your a dick, i said you were ignorant. With this condition you are born. A 14 year old has had to deal with it for 14 years already. Your ignorance stems of the fact that you don't realize how difficult it is to convince others that you can function online, that they don't need to hold your hand or look over your shoulder, that you just want to be a normal teenager, doing normal teenager stuff.
Your ignorant because the fact that there already there means they already have all the tools to get there. They need to because its not as easy as you imagine without them. They have dozens of support groups and communities already. But they don't want to go to yet another support group, they want to be a normal kid doing normal stuff.
Your ignorant because you have no idea how degrading and belitteling it is to have people like you day in dey out tell you what to do, how to "improve" yourself or your life or what you do is "wrong" or "insufficient"
Your ignorant becaue your truelly believe your helping. But your not. Next time that you see an impaired person, or an old person, don't try to help them. Instead ask them: Is there anything i can help you with? 95% of the time the awnser will be no thank you. If they do ask you for somethign help them with that, and only that. We have mouths if we need help we'll ask.
Let us keep our dignity.
How would you feel if a total stranger takes your hand to "help" you over a road crossing while your waiting for the light to go green. How would you feel if a waitress asks you "Do you need help, shall i feed you?" How would you feel if an 80 year old woman, stands up from her seat at the bus to give it to you, as if she doesn't need it more then me. Then imagine that if that happens daily, every single day of your life.
So yes i'm angry at things. And yes i could talk to my psychiater about it, or one of my online groups. But that only helps me. It doesn't make you aware that what your doing is causeing more problems. Is makeing us feel worse about ourselves. Its confrontations like this that are helpfull. They make you, and everyone who reads it aware of whats going on and why your "good samaritan" behavior is actually negatively affecting us.
Sure my communication is riddled with anger, resentment and that makes it hard to get the point across. because your "good behavior" is far more deprimental than you realize. I've had friends that got depressed because of the constant "helping" felt that they were a burden, not worth living. and ended up killing themselves.
So its ok for me to do this. Because there might be someone with the same or a different impairment that thinks. Wow he's telling him exactly how he feels about it. Its ok to be angry, its ok to shout at someone that you don't need there "help"
So yes i keep calling you ignorant, because you don't experiance it like this. You can't and you know what. Thats good. i hope you remain ignorant for the struggles of what it means to live with most impairments / diseases / conditions. and remember:
I never said your a dick, i said you were ignorant. With this condition you are born.
I never said you called me one, I said you called me ignorant. It seems to me that you are too worked up to actually read right now.
---
Fun fact though, most people with a visual impairment didn't have it at birth.
If we are talking about someone that is on a website for a game, and is having trouble with it, I am going to assume that this person is somewhat new to either the Internet, or to the impairment they have.
This is because if they were not new to one - or both - of these things, they would have a solution worked out.
Remember, you yourself said many times that solutions are out there.= for your specific impairment, and I know for a fact they are out there for many others, as well.
So, while it was indeed an assumption, I did assume that our hypothetical 14 year old was new to either their impairment or the internet. However, as an assumption, that is as valid (if not statistically more valid) than the assumption that they had this impairment since birth.
Remember, our hypothetical 14 year old is not a young version of you.
I agree, and that is why I am not trying to over step things by offering this 14 year old "assistance" in regards to a matter I may well know less about than many others out there. Rather, I am suggesting they find those others out there that are more qualified to help. Not carers, not doctors (well, perhaps doctors), but other people with this same impairment.
If a stranger tried to help me cross the road, I'd tell them to fuck off. That is why I am not trying to help the 14 year old cross the road, and even got in to a debate with the person that said they would (the person you then defended).
They make you, and everyone who reads it aware of whats going on and why your "good samaritan" behavior is actually negatively affecting us.
Again, I am not the one doing this - I am the one telling others to not do this, for the exact reasons you state here.
I think you got your wires crossed somewhere. You saw me disagree with you, and seem to think that this makes me the enemy in this thread - without you actually paying attention to what I am saying.
I have no doubt I am ignorant in regards to your specific issue, and perhaps even to the hypothetical 14 year old. However, as we don't know what impairment this hypothetical 14 year old actually has (you have assumed it is the same impairment as you, but this has not been established), it may well be that I am actually more understanding of that specific impairment than you, making you the ignorant one in this specific situation.
However, since it is a hypothetical situation, this point need not be clarified and really doesn't matter.
I don't care if you keep calling me ignorant. If anything, that is kind of just showing your ignorance on other matters. However, that is not the point I am trying to get across to you.
What I am trying to get across to you is the fact that you have seen someone say that - given the situation arising - they would suggest to someone that appears to be new to a specific impairment that they have to look up communities of others with that impairment in order to find support, tips and advice.
This is what you are labeling as ignorant - not me. You can't be calling me ignorant, because literally all you know about me is that I would do the above in the hypothetical situation we are talking about, and as such you are calling the above action ignorant.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what is wrong with suggesting this 14 year old look for a community of others with the same impairment as they have.
If there is a 14 year old with a visual impairment that comes along to these forums and has issues
As far as i can tell, the only issue wiith the forums is exactly the problem that i talk about. So on your quote: "came to THESE forums to complain," it would be the exact same condition. Which is a birth defect.
So no you can't worm your way out of your own hypotetical situation by trying to change some parameters.
Comments
Yet you in your first post already started belittleing, that, "there are better and cheaper solutions to my problem of wich you have absolutely no knowledge.
Your a rude, callous and toxic person, and dare i say it quite a megalomaniac. Please remove yourself from this topic, your input is not wanted nor needed anymore
Oh you are no longer having a genuine discussion now? You are the one assuming I would be giving resources beyond a basic google search. Lot's of projection going on here. Have a good day mate.
As part of the website revamp, the forums will also get visually reworked. I don't know if this will include aids for visually impaired people and when exactly those changes will roll out, but it's definitely on the roadmap.
As I said, I don't know what exactly will change with the revamp, just that it will happen at some point in the future.
Best you can do is to wait and see for yourself.
Not at all.
First, I specified a google search - I never once said anything about more than that. The record of what I said is above, feel free to point out where I said what you are claiming I said.
You presented me with a hypothetical situation. I told you what I would do in that situation, and why I wouldn't do more than that.
You said that this basically amounted to me telling that person to "git gud", and that you would belittle the hypothetical person in question by assuming that they were unable to perform basic tasks on their own - and that somehow this was the right thing to do.
If you don't want someone to tell you what they would do in a hypothetical situation, don't present them with one. If you don't want people to defend what they would do in a hypothetical situation, don't attack what they say it is that they would do.
And also, hypothetical situation or not, don't treat people with impairments as if we are unable to do things our selves.
What you think of as you being polite comes across as you being patronizing.
You missed some context to the hypothetical. I'm not going to bother to address the rest of your rant as you are clearly upset. So I will clarify the part that might get you to cool down, maybe.
The context that you missed that I thought was clear was this hypothetical kid is making a thread complaining about an accessibility issue/flaw in the forum. Exactly like the op. Granted I never said this explicitly since I thought it would be clear that I was carrying over context from the previous conversation to said hypothetical.
When someone makes a post for a complaint on a public forum, impairment or not, they are either asking for visibility, commiseration, or working out/seeking solutions. They are not asking for a debate on the 'trueness of the problem' nor 'criticism on their problem solving process.' That may be what they get, but it is not why /they/ are there. When they are seeking that it's usually said explicitly.
So, if you think it's patronizing to offer solutions to someone literally complaining about an issue they have said they tried solving and had difficulty solving it, when the hell is it not. When someone is complaining about a problem and their standard solutions nor working why are YOU assuming they haven't 'done a basic google search.'
Anyway that is all I have to offer you. I am sorry, genuinely no sarc , that I was not clear enough for you. That is definitely on me. Your reaction on the other hand is jumping to the worst possible conclusion about my own character and intentions when I have made a larger effort than usual to have a level headed conversation with you despite you saying some fairly obnoxious and rude things to people in general. So consider me no longer interested in continuing further.
I made that assumption.
Here's the thing though. If they are having an issue with this website, they will have some sort of issue with around 50% of all websites. The "issue" the OP is talking about is not specific to this website, and a proper fix for the issue on one site works in all sites.
The issue he talks about that he says makes it more difficult are only for work arounds to the issue, not to actual fixes. This is something I assume you don't understand, and other than saying someone with a real issue would use a fix, where someone that has a preference would use a work around, I don't see the point in going in to more detail than that here (if you have no issues in this regard, you have no reason to understand, so this is not me having a go at you).
This is why the best thing this 14 year old can do is to find a community of people with the same issue they have, people that have already found a solution to the problem that works on every website. A robust solution, not something fragile like the OP says he himself does not use
As such, the best suggestion for this person is for them to find a solution that works for them - and the best way for them to do so is to find people with similar issues and ask what they do.
This is why it is what I would suggest to this hypothetical person. I would not offer further assistance than that because it would come across as belittling, as I said earlier. But further to that point, you can't even attempt to help this person without asking them to go in to somewhat personal medical details that they may not want to go in to on the internet, and that you absolutely should not be trying to get out of a 14 year old.
Where you are right is in that it is not an easy solution to solve on one's own. That is why I am not suggesting this. I am suggesting they try and find others that have the same issue as they do.
It is quite likely that this person may have attempted to find a solution on their own, and failed miserably. I don't for a second doubt this is possible (it is probable, imo).
What is very unlikely though, is that a person that is able to find this games website was unable to find an online community of people that share the same visual impairment that they have, if they looked for it.
As such, the kostnplauaable scenario for the 14 year old that you gave was that they attempted to find a fix on their own, failed, and never actually considered looking for that online community in the first place.
So again, the best thing to do for them is to suggest they look for it - as I have been saying.
No its not, this issue has actually NEVER cropped up before. Why, because 95% of the websites keep the textfield the standard black and white,, or other high contrast to make it easier to read. All others have not been hard coded. This is the first time i encounter a hard coded font color that my browser can't override, combined with for me an unreadable font. (but theres the good old manual highlighting that still works)
Again you assume things without asking, or knowing the specifics about. Justvine's posts indicate that he has a better grasp of what my issue is.
A 14 year old does not want to be pampered. He does not want the help of others. You try to do it yourself, and if it fails you get angry, at others, at yourself, but most of all at your condition. You don't think rational then. You are angry all the time. And rightfully so. At least i know i was. And you know what makes the 14 year old, (and the adult sitting here) the most angry? People like you that think they know better. Think they experiance the same, and assume that we haven't tried thousands of tools, gadgets or other ways to make things easier and accessible.
No the best response is actually to give awnsers to what hes asking for, or if he's complaining about something, acknowledge that you heared him and inform him if / when a fix is comming. Sometimes a fix is not comming, sometimes you have to deal with it. But its ALWAYS better that they tell you that then saying: There are solutions to your problem you should look better.
You haven't offered assistance, you're replies result only in angerment people with serious impairments don't need that kind of "help" they need exactly what they ask for, nothing more nothing less. Its infuriating that people ALWAYS assume that your stupid / can't do stuff because you have an impairment.
Again wrong. Most issues have a simple solution. In this case 2
1) don't hard code the colors
2) choose a different color
People with impairments have lots of tools and trusted people that they can turn to for help. We don't need some random stranger to tell "your tools are wrong, there are better or cheaper versions." Or "your group of people around you that support you aren't good enough, you should look for other / more of them."
My issue and question has been solved by Shadonsol, a revamp of the website is comming, and the forums will be amoung them. When is unknown. I'm certain that due to being aware of the issue, one of the 2 options a) higher contrast color or b) not hard locked color will most likely be present. And if not, myself or someone else will undoubtedly call them out on it.
Online interactions you don't often reveal problems like this. Just like you have your favorite browser and settings, plugins etc, So do we. In 99.9% of the cases there is no problem, cause our settings have solved them before were even been made aware of them. the other 0.09% of the time we need to launch an additional tool and then the 0.01% if that fails we need to resort to reveal we have a problem. Do you think i like having to reveal that i have a weakness, that ignorent people can easily hook in on to make you, or your day feel worse? ofcourse not. You seem to think its the first resort we use, while its the utter last resort.
Your so full of yourself to think that you can give advice thats better then the dozens of doctors / professional caretakers that come accross these kinds of questions and issues on a daily basis. You think you know better then me what my problem is. You think you know better then me or those who help me what to use to solve the problem, and all that without even understanding the problem or what my impairment actually is, nor the tools that i have to my disposl.
In your case the best way to describe you is this statement:
A stupid person doesn't know how stupid he is.
I am not at all suggesting this hypothetical person - whom I assume has tried to find a solution all by them self, and failed, then got frustrated at them self and their impairment - should go and look for a tool to do what they want to do. I have been VERY clear about this. In fact, this is the suggestion the other poster (the one you think seems to understand you better) is trying to do.
I am fully aware that our hypothetical 14 year old has probably tried to come up with a solution and failed - and I have said that only a few posts above.
My suggest is, and always was, to suggest to that 14 year old that they find a community of people in a similar situation to them self, and talk to people there about solutions.
I'm not offering a tool, nor am I offering to help out with an issue that I know nothing about (because I know I know nothing about it, even if I know a lot about a similar issue). Have you forgotten that I am talking about our hypothetical 14 year old here? The one that doesn't have these tools yet, that needs help in getting them more than they need help with any one website?
If that 14 year old that I am talking about had that community support, they would have that solution - just as you have your solution.
This is why I am not trying to offer direct help to them, but rather suggesting they find a community of people that can offer far more help than I could ever provide for them. Again, I am not trying to give any advice.
I am trying to get this 14 year old to find a community of people with a similar condition (which likely also has specialists of the condition giving advice, as well as people that have been living with it for their whole life).
I completely agree that you would need to be full of yourself to think you could help someone with a condition you have no real idea about (no offence to those that think they could - you mean well but are just outright wrong). This is why my suggestion was not to offer help, but to suggest they find a community of people with the same issue.
The above is four either misconceptions on your part, or three cases of an attempt to purposely misrepresent what was said in order to support your case. I'm not sure which of these it is, though you will no doubt read this and know straight away whether you have purposely misrepresented what I said, or you will know that you did not purposely misrepresent what I said and as such are just gravely mistaken in your understanding of the recent discussion.
So, you think I am full of myself, callous, what ever. That's fine, I don't much care what you think.
However, based on this post above, I want to ask you directly what is wrong with what I would do in this situation.
The situation is a 4 year old coming to a website (any website) and complaining that it isn't friendly towards their specific impairment, an impairment that I know for a fact that there are tools out there to help with. My answer to this person isn't to offer hem help on something I know little about, or to brush them and their impairment off, it is to suggest they find a community of people with the same impairment, so that they can get some real, useful advice.
You've attacked me somewhat directly in your above post, you've attacked my position. As such, you now need to back up your attack on me by saying what is wrong with suggesting that 14 year old look for that community - the one that has people that have lived with this condition their whole life, and likely has specialists spending time there a well.
Go on, tell me what is wrong with that. You've already attacked my position and called me full of myself for having this position...
Because your ignorant. You don't know how difficult it is for people with this kind of condition to even navigate the internet in the first place. I'll tell you what the journey is to even get on such a website for a 14 year old and maybe then you'll be less ignorant and realise that beeing able to post exactly what is wrong in detail is a unique acomplishment.
Step 1) Convince your parents / guardians that you will be able to use a computer, and that its not a waste of money. Taking care of someone with impairments costs a lot of money, trowing a few hundred to thousand(s) of dollars away for a computer is likely not in their budget.
Often the parents / guardians already have a computer if so go directly to step 2
Step 2) Creating a user profile that you can actually navigate your computer. The standard settings are to small / similar colord to be able to properly see, so you need someone else to do this for you until you have satisfatory settings. This takes time and a lot of patience, since its difficult to describe what you want if you don't know / can read what the options are.
Step 3) you've got a computer that you can navigate great, now you need additional help because the standard browsers don't have nearly enough settings to work for you. If your lucky then you have a proffesional caretaker that knows tools and browsers for you to use, but using that caretaker for that costs money and there not cheap so often the parents / guardian will do that. Because they don't know what they are searching for, and you don't know yet what you need, its searching for long hours and testing out a lot of different browsers. But eventually you find one thats customizable enough for you to work.
STep 4) A lot of sites are not compatible for your viewing / browser, you need plugins to be able to emulate different media, and screensizes. then a lot of the laws prevent you from adjusting certain things, so you need a crawler, you need a working vpn in some cases, and you need to finetune these plugins. At this time you've spend hours if not days already trying to get things to work. it has costed you quite some money already, since most of these custom browsers aren't cheap, and if you used your paid caretaker he doesn't work for free. If its your parents / guardian, they probably are on the end of their nerves already, if the've not given up entirely.
Step 5) Get notice of the game. Some games are totally unplayable. Some seem obvious but even the simplest games can sometimes bedifficult to play. So you see / hear about a game that could potentially be something you can play. You conclude that you can, so your eager to ask your questions and talk to the community. Excited to play the (existing or upcomming) game. Luckily most questions are in the FAQ, and others are in other parts that you can find. But there are still some questions. You want to ask them, go to the forums, and then start typing.
This is od, there are no letters forming? you dont'know if your in the correct field, so you move your mouse trying to find where the curser is. You click the text field, and start typing again. Still nothing. You have to go ask your parent/ guardian to see whats wrong, they haing good eye sight say theres nothing wrong. Your confused. Has my eyes gone even worse? why can't i see, you panic a bit, and then start testing more things. and finally find out that its a color that you can't see. Ok i got tool A for that. I'll fix that.
Error. Tool B then? Error Tool C Error you go trough all your current tools and they are many. Nothing works. So you go search for the problem. Is your browser / tools out of date? you update them. Still nothing. You go to search the problem, and finally you come up with a solution that is old school but works. At least now you can see what you can type.
Ofcourse you've forgotten your initial question by now, your angry frustrated, why does it have to be so hard, i just want to play this game. So you go back to the forums and complain. You omit that you've spend hours of testing to fix it, because you know whats causing the problem. You explain the issue tell them what your complaint is, and after a reply you even specify options. Some offer different solutions to see it, you ignore them cause they don't know how much time you've already spent in getting things in working order for you. You just want the devs to be aware of the issue, and wonder if its an oversight or not. Because if its not an oversight, then your afraid these kinds of problems will be troughout the game and it will make the game unplayable for you.
And then you come in and offer your "Advice"
I hope your a little less ignorant of the hurdles now, and understand my spirited response.
Ps: Myself i was 12 when my parents bought a pc after 2 years of begging and pleading. Mom Dad, i thank you for the countless of hours that you spend learning how to use it so you could teach me. And even the countless more hours of helping me with my problems whatever they were. Thanks to you i've been able to work in ICT for 11 years now, but each time i try a new game, i'm back beeing that 12 year old boy, and enjoying the hell out of it.
Edit: In case you haven't realized by now, your "Hypothetical" situation is daily life for me
Depending on what your impairment is (I'm not asking, I don't care), there probably would not have been online communities for it 20 or so years ago when this may have applied to you. Your parents had to do things the hard way. Sucks for you, sucks more for them.
Now, however, that 14 year old will have these communities, communities filled with people like yourself, who they can use as resources to get information from. I should note, I am somewhat surprised you seem to not already frequent such a community - you would do more good for people in your situation from within such a community than you would by posting that individual websites should change things.
So, while you are sitting here and saying I am being ignorant, what I am really saying is that should someone with the same impairment as you come to these forums, they should talk to you - or someone like you - and not me.
Wow, what an absolute dick that makes me - suggesting people go to places where they can find actual information to actually help them with actual issues they actually have, knowing full well that me attempting to help them any more than that is a waste of their time as well as mine, and likely makes the person feel belittled.
I get you're pissed off at something. That's fine. However, take a look at what it is I am saying here - an objective look. I am saying that someone with an impairment should talk to others with the same impairment in order to get advice and tips on how to better do things that the impairment in question makes more difficult.
I am saying this, and you are calling me ignorant (among other things) for saying this. Are you saying that this 14 year old should not seek out others with this same impairment in order to find real and actual assistance? Or are you just bitter because these communities didn't exist when you were younger?
I never said your a dick, i said you were ignorant. With this condition you are born. A 14 year old has had to deal with it for 14 years already. Your ignorance stems of the fact that you don't realize how difficult it is to convince others that you can function online, that they don't need to hold your hand or look over your shoulder, that you just want to be a normal teenager, doing normal teenager stuff.
Your ignorant because the fact that there already there means they already have all the tools to get there. They need to because its not as easy as you imagine without them. They have dozens of support groups and communities already. But they don't want to go to yet another support group, they want to be a normal kid doing normal stuff.
Your ignorant because you have no idea how degrading and belitteling it is to have people like you day in dey out tell you what to do, how to "improve" yourself or your life or what you do is "wrong" or "insufficient"
Your ignorant becaue your truelly believe your helping. But your not. Next time that you see an impaired person, or an old person, don't try to help them. Instead ask them: Is there anything i can help you with? 95% of the time the awnser will be no thank you. If they do ask you for somethign help them with that, and only that. We have mouths if we need help we'll ask.
Let us keep our dignity.
How would you feel if a total stranger takes your hand to "help" you over a road crossing while your waiting for the light to go green. How would you feel if a waitress asks you "Do you need help, shall i feed you?" How would you feel if an 80 year old woman, stands up from her seat at the bus to give it to you, as if she doesn't need it more then me. Then imagine that if that happens daily, every single day of your life.
So yes i'm angry at things. And yes i could talk to my psychiater about it, or one of my online groups. But that only helps me. It doesn't make you aware that what your doing is causeing more problems. Is makeing us feel worse about ourselves. Its confrontations like this that are helpfull. They make you, and everyone who reads it aware of whats going on and why your "good samaritan" behavior is actually negatively affecting us.
Sure my communication is riddled with anger, resentment and that makes it hard to get the point across. because your "good behavior" is far more deprimental than you realize. I've had friends that got depressed because of the constant "helping" felt that they were a burden, not worth living. and ended up killing themselves.
So its ok for me to do this. Because there might be someone with the same or a different impairment that thinks. Wow he's telling him exactly how he feels about it. Its ok to be angry, its ok to shout at someone that you don't need there "help"
So yes i keep calling you ignorant, because you don't experiance it like this. You can't and you know what. Thats good. i hope you remain ignorant for the struggles of what it means to live with most impairments / diseases / conditions. and remember:
Ignorance is bliss
---
Fun fact though, most people with a visual impairment didn't have it at birth.
If we are talking about someone that is on a website for a game, and is having trouble with it, I am going to assume that this person is somewhat new to either the Internet, or to the impairment they have.
This is because if they were not new to one - or both - of these things, they would have a solution worked out.
Remember, you yourself said many times that solutions are out there.= for your specific impairment, and I know for a fact they are out there for many others, as well.
So, while it was indeed an assumption, I did assume that our hypothetical 14 year old was new to either their impairment or the internet. However, as an assumption, that is as valid (if not statistically more valid) than the assumption that they had this impairment since birth.
Remember, our hypothetical 14 year old is not a young version of you. I agree, and that is why I am not trying to over step things by offering this 14 year old "assistance" in regards to a matter I may well know less about than many others out there. Rather, I am suggesting they find those others out there that are more qualified to help. Not carers, not doctors (well, perhaps doctors), but other people with this same impairment.
If a stranger tried to help me cross the road, I'd tell them to fuck off. That is why I am not trying to help the 14 year old cross the road, and even got in to a debate with the person that said they would (the person you then defended).
Again, I am not the one doing this - I am the one telling others to not do this, for the exact reasons you state here.
I think you got your wires crossed somewhere. You saw me disagree with you, and seem to think that this makes me the enemy in this thread - without you actually paying attention to what I am saying. Ignorance is ignorance, bliss is bliss.
I have no doubt I am ignorant in regards to your specific issue, and perhaps even to the hypothetical 14 year old. However, as we don't know what impairment this hypothetical 14 year old actually has (you have assumed it is the same impairment as you, but this has not been established), it may well be that I am actually more understanding of that specific impairment than you, making you the ignorant one in this specific situation.
However, since it is a hypothetical situation, this point need not be clarified and really doesn't matter.
I don't care if you keep calling me ignorant. If anything, that is kind of just showing your ignorance on other matters. However, that is not the point I am trying to get across to you.
What I am trying to get across to you is the fact that you have seen someone say that - given the situation arising - they would suggest to someone that appears to be new to a specific impairment that they have to look up communities of others with that impairment in order to find support, tips and advice.
This is what you are labeling as ignorant - not me. You can't be calling me ignorant, because literally all you know about me is that I would do the above in the hypothetical situation we are talking about, and as such you are calling the above action ignorant.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what is wrong with suggesting this 14 year old look for a community of others with the same impairment as they have.
As far as i can tell, the only issue wiith the forums is exactly the problem that i talk about. So on your quote: "came to THESE forums to complain," it would be the exact same condition. Which is a birth defect.
So no you can't worm your way out of your own hypotetical situation by trying to change some parameters.