Corruption - group mechanics

Scenario: A group of 8 players roll through an area, see a lone person gathering or grinding mobs, and kill him to take his stuff. The solo player decides not to fight back. As the system is currently designed, only the person dealing the killing blow is corrupted.

So what happens to the corrupt player in the group? Do they

just remain in the group as if nothing happened, and the other group members can heal/buff/rez as per usual?
stay in the group, and can't be healed, rezzed or buffed, but doesn't take damage from offensive abilities by party members?
stay in the group, but will be damaged by other party members, like any other mob.
get auto-kicked from the group and is treated like any other monster

All this isn't covered by the wiki, so this post is also about getting your opinions.

I am by default assuming that in option 1-3, they can't join any other non-corrupt group. They are only allowed to stay in the group they were in from the start. However, this also opens up issues if they lose connection or have to relog for any reason. Should they be allowed back into the group if that happens?

In option 1-3, can the other group members earn shared xp to remove the corruption status of the single player, as long as the corrupted player is within XP radius?

If option 4 is what happens, can the corrupt player group up with other corrupt players? Or are they forever alone while in a corrupted state?

If 2+ corrupted players can group up to grind XP, what happens when one of the two players is no longer corrupt, but the other still is? (options 1-4 all over again).

My personal take on this is, going with option 4 is the simpler solution to design, but it also really sucks in some ways. If you are rolling along with a group of friends and want to contest a grinding spot, it effectively kills your group if the opposing team doesn't flag up, and only 3 of people in the group get the killing blows. Now you just have a group of 5 non-corrupted and 3 corrupted players outside the group, and it's just a big, sucky mess for everyone involved.

My Preference

If they stick to their current design, where only the player doing the killing blow become corrupt, I think the best solution is option 1.

My preferred solution is a little different. I think if any group member kills a green player, the ENTIRE group (within a radius) should get corrupt, with one big exception. From the wiki:

Players will be able to opt-in (via a checkbox) to allow their beneficial or non-beneficial AoEs to hit flagged players. If this is checked then AoE heals or damage will affect flagged players. If it is not checked then the AoE will not damage or heal any flagged players, and as such will not cause the caster to be flagged themselves (if they are not already)

So players who don't opt-in to this won't get corrupted, but they also can't help in the fight.

In practical terms, this means you opt in when running with your usual crew and decide that pvp and corruption is on the table for all involved. If grouping with randoms, you don't opt in, and you are thus protected from the actions of Psycho McStabyerface, who just live for that shit.

For raids, I still think it should be group based. So only the people in the specific group in the raid get corruption, not the entire raid.

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Comments

Noaani

It is also my hope that all players involved in killing a non-combatant gain an amount of corruption. Not the same amount as the player that dealt the killing blow, but still some. Also not just players in the group that killed the non-combatant, but any player that had a hand in killing them.

Without this, it would be fairly easy to circumvent a number of protections the system has in place. If you are level 20and I an level 50, and I decide to attack you, your best option is to not fight back, let me kill you and take a massive corruption hit, and then carry on. If I mostly kill you (which will be harder without a health display, but not really), and then have a level 20 friend just perform the final killing blow, the corruption penalty is negligible, where it should have been very large.

George_Black

Steven said 2 months ago that only the player dealing the killing blow will gain corruption.
The system is there to deter PK, not to make it impossible.

They wont change the design and I agree wih their reasoning.

Enigmatic Sage

I also heard that they were looking into a system based on an unknown percentile for damage done to the target for corruption and not just the killing blow. This of course based around the targets HP.

Nerror

George Black wrote: »

Steven said 2 months ago that only the player dealing the killing blow will gain corruption.
The system is there to deter PK, not to make it impossible.

They wont change the design and I agree wih their reasoning.

You don't know what they will change or not change obviously

But besides that, what are your thoughts on the actual scenario I put forward? If you are running with a group and kill a green player for whatever reason, and you get the killing blow, what should happen to you in terms of grouping? Auto-kicked from group and let the other group members kill you?

George_Black

Nothing should happen. I played L2 with the corruption system. Never had any issues killing or being killed.

The system doesnt need to be more severe. It works since 2003

Nerror

George Black wrote: »

Nothing should happen.

Meaning you should be corrupted and stay in the group as if nothing happened? Option 1 in the OP?

George_Black

Yes. You should be corrupted and stay in the group.

Nerror

George Black wrote: »

Yes. You should be corrupted and stay in the group.

Ok. So basically you'd end up with corrupted players having a bunch of non-corrupted players in their group for healing and buffing, taking away the option of killing them without also killing the other non-corrupt players in the group. It's an option for sure, but it also compromises the whole idea of non-combatants being able to kill corrupt players.

George_Black

If you heal or buff a red player you turn purple.

I dont think you know much about the system. How can you make reccomendations if you dont?

Nerror

George Black wrote: »

If you heal or buff a red player you turn purple.

I dont think you know much about the system. How can you make reccomendations if you dont?

I know as much as you do probably. This isn't L2. It's a similar system, not identical.

Where does it say you can even heal or buff a red player in Ashes if you are non-corrupt? I might have missed it, so I'd like a source on that. But let's roll with as if true.

From the wiki:

If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant

But they probably will have to flag if the corrupt player has a bunch of non-corrupt healers right? Hence compromising that whole idea that the corrupt player can be killed by non-combatants, because

essentially at that point you are like a monster

And that is a quote from Steven.

https://youtu.be/hCjamiTtvTo?t=592 at the 9:47 mark roughly.

Again, they can definitely go the route of option 1 in the OP. I don't like it, but it is an option for sure.

Another reason I don't like it being based on the killing blow, is that it unfairly punishes the DPS characters, who are more likely to deliver those killing blows, while the healers can just breeze by without penalties, even though they might have been essential for the kill in the first place.

George_Black

Ye ok. My time is up for here. Gl with your feedback task

Nerror

George Black wrote: »

Ye ok. My time is up for here. Gl with your feedback task

Why thank you

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

Nothing should happen. I played L2 with the corruption system. Never had any issues killing or being killed.

The system doesnt need to be more severe. It works since 2003

Different generation of players now.

What worked then worked because of the mentality of the players, not because of the system specifically.

Change the mentality of the players, and the same system will just not work the same, or produce the same results.

If they make it so only the player that deals the killing blow gets corruption, then corruption is much less of a deterrent in many situations, and players will be easily able to avoid even gaining corruption in the first place.

CROW3

If I designed this mechanic, I’d bust out my Oprah:

You get corruption!
You get corruption!
You get corruption!

EV ER EE BO DEE gets corruption!

Azherae

I'll assume and prefer #1.

That seems to be the intent of the design, and it's pretty appreciable to just be able to treat any player in your way as a target, when in a larger group. The idea would be that if you see a large group of players heading your way, and they aren't known allies of yours through either your Node or your Guild, you hide, run, let them extort you, whatever. Basically just expect to die.

There's no indication that when I heal my corrupted party members this will corrupt me, as of now, that I can find. This might be covered by the fact that corrupted is 'above' combatant' on some scale, and therefore healing my corrupted teammate might flag me for combat, but that's 90 seconds. Since you don't get flagged for looting bodies either, this works out well for support classes, who could buff early, then get out of the way and stay green, and then loot the body at the end, forcing attackers to corrupt themselves to get anything back.

As I understood it though, this was all the point. Your group fights for a spot or defends territory by threatening whoever enters it (implicitly or explicitly) and the system is intended to make that threat meaningful. This would be more effective in areas with strong enemies that you could kill (or were killing anyway) or chokepoints (to kill other groups or bounty hunters quickly).

If one wants to deal with 'the Bard playing Innocent' then you have to have a Guild or be sure you're going to win against the machinations. It's explicitly meant to give advantage to full groups to force others to band together to form full groups of their own, then Guilds, then Alliances, all up the ladder.

The task of a solo wanderer is to hide, pay fealty, or find allies. I see no reason to penalize my group in any way in terms of group composition options because we killed a non-combatant.

daveywavey

Well, what happens in RL if a group of four people beat someone to death? There can only be one of them that deals the 'killing blow'. Is it just that one that goes down for murder, or is it all of them?

Nerror

daveywavey wrote: »

Well, what happens in RL if a group of four people beat someone to death? There can only be one of them that deals the 'killing blow'. Is it just that one that goes down for murder, or is it all of them?

Exactly! They all get a sentence.

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