Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Should Ashes be "too hard" or "too easy" at release?

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Excuse the clickbait title. What I more precisely mean is explained below:

Harder: Longer time to level. More difficult Dungeons, raids, bosses and mobs. More challenging quests. More dedication required to level professions and farm meterials.

Easier: Opposite of above

Assume a perfect balance is impossible and IS needs to bend a bit one way or the other and work from there. In this case, would you rather have IS make the game harder, or easier? Explain why!

Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Too hard.
  • PercimesPercimes Member
    Both brings their problems, but, even if corrected early, the damages done while being too easy are permanent.

    Between the two evils, being too hard is the lesser one.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Make leveling easier but actually beating things 'too hard' until all abilities unlocked, then shift ti too hard. Slow early game leveling sucks and is super grindy with not much to learn mechanics wise. Good core combat systems help but we don't know if Intrepid will implement those. Otherwise I agree with @Percimes over all.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Too hard.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • FohlenbratenFohlenbraten Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Would also think too hard is the better option - it urges people to work together more often!
    [Fleo Verum] Séarlas - Py'rai - Ranger+ X
  • mfckingjokermfckingjoker Member, Alpha Two
    hard plz :)
    3hmamy1ekfqy.gif
  • IronhopeIronhope Member
    If I had to choose I would choose ''too hard'' any day every day.

    Games are supposed to be mental challenges and dexterity challenges.

    If they're not hard, they fail at their purpose.

    An mmo-rpg being hard is a core necessity because hardship is what binds people together in real life and what binds them together in video games.

    ''hey bro you on the quest too?''

    ''sup, found an elite, want to give it a try?''

    etc

    The game should be challenging and leave room for people to get better so they got a goal in the game also.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2021
    Definitely don't go easy, but then, what is hard and easy? It can vary wildly among the playerbase, and I think Intrepid has to have that in mind and make some of the content varied in difficulty as well.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    JustVine wrote: »
    Make leveling easier but actually beating things 'too hard' until all abilities unlocked, then shift ti too hard. Slow early game leveling sucks and is super grindy with not much to learn mechanics wise. Good core combat systems help but we don't know if Intrepid will implement those. Otherwise I agree with @Percimes over all.

    I agree with this because the point of gradually accessing your abilities is so that you progressively get used to all your skills. If I have to spend an hour using my level 1 ability before I can learn my next ability I'll be dying of boredom.
    Hard late levels is for fine tuning your build.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • IronhopeIronhope Member
    Nerror wrote: »
    what is hard and easy?

    When you feel like the world is dangerous and big (suddenly distances begin to matter when each step is a risk).

    When you're feeling like its Christmas every time you get a 1% better item and whenever you get a new talent because the world is dangerous and God knows you need every bit of help you can get.

    When you need to ask people you come by for help and end up forming true mmo friendships because you just can't do all leveling quests alone/you would like to get that elite down for a 15% better item.

    When you keep adding people to your friend list because you know you will need them for other dungeons/elites.

    When you always feel strapped for cash because the game has an actual economy and every gold coil you get has meaning.

    And when raid leaders are screaming xD

  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Too hard at the beginning. But, as you get higher level, it should get harder.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2021
    It seems everyone is in an agreement as to which way IS should err towards, but I have another question. What about the game should the 'hard' be derived from?

    Examples: Tight decision making? Reacting to various attacks with the 'correct' response? Needing to keep a consistent gameplan under increasing difficulty? Repetition of a hard boss fight due to low drop percentage for the gear? Figuring out the best economic decisions?

    In other words what do you think makes something hard and where in the games design do you want to see that coming from?
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    too hard

    too easy means no pay off, you get bored in a week
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    I remember trying ESO not long ago, it was so easy, I oneshotted all the mobs and didnt got hurt at all, they gave me new skills and I couldn't even try them because they had no use, how can I know my character if I don't need to have a good skill rotation or see my potential... oh and they gave me free potions, yeah right i need them so much, i got bored in 3 hours
  • JamesSunderlandJamesSunderland Member
    Difficulty can be quite subjective, a balance is important, i believe there should be content of all levels of difficulty with the rewards of such content being balanced around its difficulty.

    As for leveling and profession leveling it must be a nice upwards curve in terms of difficulty, but should be overall harder when compared to recent MMORPGs....


    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The too hard route is the way to go. It allows for gradual adjustment while making sure the content isn't blown away at blazing speed while they tweak the game (-cough cough- new world). Harder content also encourages the playerbase to work together to complete content and potentially build a healthy community.

    Harder keeps the game healthy even if it may be frustrating at first for many players. The easy route makes the game uninteresting and allows players to get an early edge over others before the game can be properly balanced (if needed), and in the scenario that it isnt needed, an easy game is just boring anyway and everyone will be uninterested in a month once content is cleared.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • IronhopeIronhope Member
    JustVine wrote: »
    What about the game should the 'hard' be derived from?

    In other words what do you think makes something hard and where in the games design do you want to see that coming from?

    Enemies and especially enemy groups are geniunely dangerous and if you don't put enough thinking in a pull it will go very bad. You actually need to keep an eye on what the mob is doing otherwise things can go very wrong. Grouping will be needed for many quests/objectives to be completed.

    The need to pay attention to what the questgiver is saying (otherwise risk the quest going very very badly) and to think what dialogue decissions you make.

    Scarcity is a real thing and every item/resource (plant, ore, leather, etc) you get has actual value and you need to think well about what you're going to do with it because it will affect the state of your finances to notable degree.

    World PvP is a real thing and you must always keep an eye out and be ready to duck and cover.

    Transport scarcity is a real thing. No speed-of-light mounts, no portal to every corner of the world. The journey basically to any point is an adventure because it will be long (since you're not moving very fast) and since the npcs aren't pushovers and PvP is a thing.

    Traps and world hazards like diseases, avalanches, storms, etc

    Instances are often open world so PvE and PvP.

    Bosses both in open world and closed instances have mechanic variations and complex mechanics that need proper teamplay especially in the context of no ''mummy hold my hand'' addons telling you what to do at every step and turning you into a bot (like what happened in WoW).

    to give a few examples off the top of my mind, probably not even the best examples but still
  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Easy in the early game
    Balanced in the mid game
    Hard in the late game

    Learning a new game shouldn't be hard. Beginning quests should give players class identity. If the early game is hard it means AOC missed the mark.

    At the same time late game pvp and high level raids should be difficult...either with strategy...players responsibility...coordination or all the above.
Sign In or Register to comment.