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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Fist weapons
Rookk
Member, Alpha Two
im pretty new to the whole AOC scene so far but im curious if there has been any talk of fist weapons? i mean like are the gonna be in the game or no?
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Comments
Also, there hasn't been any confirmation that they won't.
I personally would like to see them.
I have also heard that. And I like it. They look silly.
what world did you come from? seeing a dude throw a fuckin flameing punch and fly around the battlefield cracking skulls with effectively steel gloves would be badass! have you not seen Arcane!?!
so you're telling me that a guy with a sword is gonna kill a 100 foot tall dragon that has scales so strong that cannons cant do jack shit? XD like seriously man just go with the standard idea that its not just a sword or in this case its not just fists, its fists that the person uses martial magic to enhance! or some shit like that. really i dont get why people hate having different weapon types and want so desperatly to limit the rest of the community just because THEY THEMSELVES wouldnt use those weapons if they were added. srly...
Not a fan of hand to hand in fantasy or Sci-fi... Unless It's like an MMA fight with rules. There is no reason not to use a good weapon.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Would this same line of thinking not also be applicable for taking a sword up against someone throwing fireballs at you?
I feel like I could swat a fireball away with the side of my sword... Or block with a shield... or just get out of the way...
I would rather have a sword going up against someone who throws fireballs then just my fists. I would take a spear over just about any melee weapon, though. Long ranged piercing attacks seem to win fights fast irl. Which is why bullets are so OP.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
From ""realistic"" point of view many things in fantasy genre looks strange or even stupid... And ,usually, fantasy monk isn ''t of those who can allow chop his hands so simple.
Any good fireball explodes on impact.
I would also personally rather have a sword and shield if going up against someone throwing fireballs. But that is because I have 'limited' martial training, and so to me, something is better than nothing.
However, if I were trained in a martial discipline that involved being unarmed, I would probably prefer to go up against someone throwing fireballs at me unarmed. I would imagine that if I were trained as such, doing that would be fairly natural to me, and I would likely look at someone with a sword and shield and laugh to myself that they are probably going to try and swat the fireballs out of the way, and that won't work because any good fireball explodes on impact - whereas me being unarmed are less encumbered, so can get out of that exploding range all together.
The real world "meta" has almost always been about who could "open" their opponent the most and the fastest.
Bludgeoning damage is no joke, but it's way more survivable than a cut or stab.
I would also take a hammer or mace over a fist. A hammer and mace allow for more range than a fist. Fists also wear out faster.
I have never really thought of the fireballs damage being from explosions. It has always been from just the fire in my mind. If getting hit by a fireball is like getting hit by a grenade the way you explain it, then nothing will help you. Not even full plate. In this case, the blunt force would be devastating.
I still think nearly any weapon is and advantage over hand to hand.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
A very common fantasy (sci fi?) example of fist weapons would be Wolverine. An example of them in the real world would be brass knuckles.
Essentially, a fist weapon can be defined as any weapon that is wielded using the same motion as a punch. There are fist weapons to deal greater bludgeoning damage, but there are also slashing and piercing weapons that also fit in to this category.
A quick google image search will show you a variety of both fantasy and real fist weapons.
One this most of them do have in common (though not all, to be fair) is that they are small enough as to not encumber the user at all - which is one of the advantages they have.
Since it's fun to explore, I will keep going.
I still feel like you are still sacrificing range. Wolverine has to get in real close to fight. Which works well in a universe where most of the characters don't use weapons because it would make comics and movies much more violent.
Spider-Man is like "max dexterity". He would be much more powerful if he used a rapier to give him more range. I think because of the comic code of authority and the general idea that superheros only knock out the bad guys (with few exceptions like the punisher) superheros tend to use hand-to-hand for knockouts. The sacrifice in range is less of a big deal when almost everyone is hand-to-hand. Superheros should be using clubs or nightsticks to sap bag guys, IMO. I think people would be mad if every superhero was beating people over the head with clubs, but I think nearly any blunt interment is better than weapons. It seems like "the rule of cool" in full force for most comics.
In fantasy, most characters carry some form of melee weapon. Even the giga-chad archer Legolas carries a sword for melee combat. Things like wolverines claws and the katar or claws from Diablo 2 add some range, but I still don't think its super practical. It's like having a dagger that is locked into place. I also don't think daggers are super practical.
Like, most of these fist weapons offer no range. No extended leverage. Some of them may make your arm longer, but you lose the versatility of angles you can attack from with a held weapon. You lose the potential to amplify your strength with leverage as well. It just seems like a disadvantage at ever turn to me.
Given the choice, I would always choose what is the fastest and gives the most range in a real fight. Gun>Spear>Rapier>Long Sword>Dagger>Fist. This is just how I feel, though.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Where fist weapons make sense in a fantasy setting is in dexterity based tanks - or dexterity fighters in general.
Sure, you lose some range, but you also don't have a big thing you need to maintain control of that can become a point of weakness. With a sword, every time you swing, you are exposing yourself if you miss. This is something fist weapons don't really have.
Additionally, with a sword or shield, an experienced opponent can use the bulk you are attempting to control in order to throw you off balance.
There absolutely are times that fist weapons would be a disadvantage, but there is no single weapon (real or fantasy) that doesn't have disadvantages..
You do expose yourself when you go in with a fist weapon. I would argue its worst because you have to get closer to your opponent to attack. You spend more time in striking distance, going in for an attack. Ever millisecond you spend in striking distance of your opponent can be fatal. The more time spent in striking range, the more likely you are to get stuck.
The only advantage I could see with fist weapons is "if" you still have the use of your hands, you could possibly grab your opponent's weapon and negate some or all of their offensive capability. I would see this as extremely risky, but possible.
I would use like a spiked or bladed metal gauntlet of some kind if I had to go with a fist weapon. Most of the first weapons I see online are held, which takes away the versatility of grabbing a weapon or grappling. I mean, wolverine is particularly OP here because he can retract his claws at will, heal, and his bones can't really be broken. Unless he is fighting someone in melee with a lightsaber, he just don't care. Most melee guys go down when they start to bleed, and getting in close is a good way to get bled.
If I was going to do all that, though, I think I would still carry any other weapon and have the spiked gauntlet as a backup.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
If you are in range of your opponent, and they have a sword (or similar sized weapon), you are too close to them for them to be able to do anything to you. This is a similar issue that polearms of all types have. As soon as your opponent closes in past the end of your weapon, you can't use it any more - one of the key fundamentals of polearm combat is keeping your opponent at just the right distance.
To me, this is the exact type of matchup that fist weapons would excel at. You have a polearm and so want to keep me at range, I have fist weapons and training on how to get past your polearm. As soon as I manage that, you are unable to either attack or defend.
While this does indeed require getting in to that close range, that is why these weapons are not for the inexperienced.
"keeping at the right distance" that is the key. I feel like it's much easier for a polearm user to maintain range than a fist weapon user to even get into range.
The fight with Oberyn vs The Mountain from GOT comes to mind. Even though The Mountain used a sword in that fight, he still had trouble even getting into range well. Oberyn would have killed him if he did not get into close range to gloat.
I just don't see it being easy to get that close without getting tore up. Unless you have an insane speed advantage and could move circles around your opponent.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
ok so to preface i havent read past this comment because i came back to this thread after literally like a day and theres fuckin 12 NEW COMMENTS and they are all moderatly long so forgive me if what i say has been adressed but im not saying add the ability to fight BAREHANDED, im saying add a fist type weapon like for example the fist weapons that vander used in the netflix show arcane or perhaps with the more world of warcraft style weapons that Vi used in the same show. im thinking like big hunks of metal that would be used in a brawler style and their massive size and being constructed of metal allowing for deflects of blades as well as with Vi's fist weapons, the atlas gauntlets that she gets later in the show you could even feesably grab and break your opponents blade. thats what i was suggesting and on the front of "why would anyone ever use these?" its a matter of in our world with our limited stength and capability i would agree that at best weapons like vanders gauntlets would probably result in you getting yourself killed especially against a faster smaller weapon like a dagger or knife that can get around your slow moving gauntlets but in a world where as i mentioned, a fuckin 6 ft dude with a fucking basic mace can hit a 100 ft dragon so fuckin hard that it actually deals mesurable damage and feesabley could kill it that way so in a world like that gauntlets like this would be hard to disarm and not too over encumbering especially when you also have metal apparently strong enough to take a slash from the same 100 ft dragon and come out with only scrapes so stop with this "ReAlY!? A gUy FiGhTiNg A gUy ShOoTiNg FiReBaLlS wItH hIs FiStS!?!?!?!"
The problem with the fight you are referencing here is that The Mountain isn't exactly fast. Strong, but slow.
Another fight in GoT that doesn't use fist weapons yet shows the usefulness of them would be Arya sparring with Brianne. Arya was able to hold her own because she was more mobile. She had smaller weapons with shorter range, but could move more freely.
Fist weapons are just a more extreme version of that.
And yes, I did go over the difference between fist weapons and unarmed fighting.
Incidentally, the post where I went over the difference; 146 words, 763 characters.
The post where you did; 313 words, 1,681 characters.
It seems odd to complain about the length of posts in a post that is more than twice as long - don't you agree?
EXACTLY! and dont forgot most fistweapons are designed in such a way that they are hard to disarm someone of
well im very lazy and honestly at this point im convinced that everyone saying no to fist weapons in this thread is just fucking saying it both because they misunderstand my points and i honestly dont feel bad in assuming anymore that they dont want to understand my points and are set in their own opinion the same way a fundamentalist preacher aint ever gonna listen to an atheist pointing out the flaws in their arguments. when thats the case and i suck at reading and writing big time cause i have adhd and cant still still unless im super focus'd im kinda basically done here now that i feel i at least got my point across
It's not an excuse - for anything, ever.
You are stuck with it for life.
Figure out how to get things done regardless.