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ALL COSMETICS should be locked behind something ingame

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Visual progression is a vital factor for an MMO. Especially during it's early stages and release.

There is something magical when you create a new character in a new or old MMO. You literally see your character evolve visually as you progress. It is also amazing, seeing your fellow players around you grow visually as well. This will never be a thing in AoC. Because everyone will very early use their cosmetics on their armor and weapons.

Is there something we could do instead? Where we value the cosmetics while still retaining the amazing visual progression an MMO can offer at the start of an adventure? Yes.

Lore friendly and fun gameplay solution

In the world of Verra, magically transforming your items and mounts into different beings and items while retaining their properties requires a skilled and knowledgeable individual. A Transmogrifier.

These are rare in the world of Verra, and they don't come cheap. And they may not offer their services to everyone.

Once our character ascends at level 25 (aka, unlocks their secondary archtype) a quest chain could be unlocked. A Transmogrifier is in need of help with an epic task.

Helping the Transmogrifier out, will unlock the ability to freely use your cosmetics, maybe for a small fee, or completly free on the go. He might also teach you how to use this magic on your own, so you can use cosmetics on the fly.

The quest could technically be unlocked at any level, but the later the better in my opinion. I would even prefer level 60, but 25 is a nice compromise for people who want cosmetics early.

What benefits does this bring?

Well, it offers us an amazing lore friendly, potentially epic quest to unlock our cosmetics. I believe a quest chain like this, will make our cosmetics feel more valuable and appreciated. It might also motivate people to stay a bit longer at release to unlock this feature and actually try out the game.

In addition to this, the system will make it so we don't lose that magical early game visual progression. I believe this is vital for the health of the game during release.

What do you think? Share your thoughts!

*Disclaimer: I am aware some cosmetics are already locked. For example, flying mount cosmetics require you to own a tier 3 mount. Gliding mount cosmetics require you to own a tier 2 mount. But, costumes, armor, weapons, tier 1 mounts, will all most likely be avaible very, very early.
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Comments

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    bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think your 5 years late.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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    CptBrownBeardCptBrownBeard Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Applying the cosmetic once I've acquired the necessary gear piece is my visual progression. So thanks, but no thanks.
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    VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    We are being compensated for the cash shop and cosmetics existing. There is no box price.

    They are not quadruple dipping like WOW(box price,sub,wow token,cash shop) or triple dipping like FFXIV(box price,sub,cash shop).

    Cosmetics are a major component of their business model, and it's not going to change. While philosophically, I agree with you, I can't advocate for the change in Ashes because I have already spent good money buying into their current business model. I also agree with Steven that this is the best business model for Ashes. I can't see other models having as high of a chance for success.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    In general, I agree.

    For Ashes, nope. Not what this game is about.
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    Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited December 2021
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    We are being compensated for the cash shop and cosmetics existing. There is no box price.

    Cosmetics are a major component of their business model, and it's not going to change.

    ^This.^

    Taking away cash shop cosmetics means you're asking Steven and the Team to essentially survive on subscription only.

    That's not sustainable for the cadence of content that Ashes wants to deliver.

    Fortunately, Steven has said a number of times that "comparable" in-game cosmetics can be found in lieu of the cash shop version, @Marzzo.
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    *sigh* - Do we not have a megathread for these, yet?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Applying the cosmetic once I've acquired the necessary gear piece is my visual progression. So thanks, but no thanks.

    So the second you log in and find out you are wearing an armor piece? Ur aware most cosmetics are full body, non customizable suits? That you will be able to use right when you log in?
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    We are being compensated for the cash shop and cosmetics existing. There is no box price.

    Cosmetics are a major component of their business model, and it's not going to change.

    ^This.^

    Taking away cash shop cosmetics means you're asking Steven and the Team to essentially survive on subscription only.

    That's not sustainable for the cadence of content that Ashes wants to deliver.

    Fortunately, Steven has said a number of times that "comparable" in-game cosmetics can be found in lieu of the cash shop version, @Marzzo.

    I never said anything about taking away any cosmetic. Also, recoloured items and such will not be a thing. This is confirmed. Maybe actually read the post before commenting.
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    We are being compensated for the cash shop and cosmetics existing. There is no box price.

    They are not quadruple dipping like WOW(box price,sub,wow token,cash shop) or triple dipping like FFXIV(box price,sub,cash shop).

    Cosmetics are a major component of their business model, and it's not going to change. While philosophically, I agree with you, I can't advocate for the change in Ashes because I have already spent good money buying into their current business model. I also agree with Steven that this is the best business model for Ashes. I can't see other models having as high of a chance for success.

    I don't understand what you mean. With my proposed system, all cosmetics are still there. Nothing changes, except that you need to unlock the ability to use them.

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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think your 5 years late.

    What do you even mean?
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    Marzzo wrote: »

    What do you even mean?

    The majority of games do not use a fixed visual progression system. Xmog and cosmetics are the new established norm.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »

    What do you even mean?

    The majority of games do not use a fixed visual progression system. Xmog and cosmetics are the new established norm.

    But why would we let that happened. This game does not have to be like all other, failed games. I really can't understand why cosmetics can't be unlocked a little later in progression.

    I mean, if it is tied to a fun and engaging questiline, it actually puts some lore and depth to everyone's cosmetics.

    It's a win win for everyone.
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    I think the cosmetics ship has sailed for Ashes.

    To answer your question ‘why would we let that happen?’ The practical response is to vote with your wallet. If you disagree, don’t buy cosmetics. If you disagree so vehemently, don’t sub for the game.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
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    bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Marzzo wrote: »
    I think your 5 years late.

    What do you even mean?

    That choice was made long before they announced the project and Kickstarter happened.
    Lots of games had this long before AOC was even a thing.
    EQ2 had the dress up thing way back on 2007 when I tried it for the first time. Don't know where this started and no interest in looking it up.
    Point is this thing happened long time ago and most people like it.
    Locking some gears behind achievements is a good thing and that stuff will be prestigious above anything you can buy in the shop.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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    VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Marzzo wrote: »

    I don't understand what you mean. With my proposed system, all cosmetics are still there. Nothing changes, except that you need to unlock the ability to use them.

    You want Intrepid to make money. They are not a charity. Your suggested system would be devastating financially compared to having a cash shop. This is why nearly every MMORPG has a cash shop. The $15 a month only model is not good enough anymore. Even more so for and Indy start up like Intrepid Studios.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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    Damn, sounds like an awsome idea. I totally agree that visual progression is important and that it feels fair and believable.
    Probably wont happen though. They are too far into development to change it up now. Sad times ;(

    The meta right now is to farm money from cash shops but hopefully not too far from now a game completely without any form of cashshop releases and becomes so popular that it makes a statement to other developers so that this trash meta finally goes in the grave.
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »

    I don't understand what you mean. With my proposed system, all cosmetics are still there. Nothing changes, except that you need to unlock the ability to use them.

    You want Intrepid to make money. They are not a charity. Your suggested system would be devastating financially compared to having a cash shop. This is why nearly every MMORPG has a cash shop. The $15 a month only model is not good enough anymore. Even more so for and Indy start up like Intrepid Studios.

    What the hell are you talking about? In my system, the cash shop is still there. All the planned cosmetics are still there. Everyone can use all cosmetics. They just need to do a quest a bit later (lvl 25) before they can use them?

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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Orym wrote: »
    Damn, sounds like an awsome idea. I totally agree that visual progression is important and that it feels fair and believable.
    Probably wont happen though. They are too far into development to change it up now. Sad times ;(

    The meta right now is to farm money from cash shops but hopefully not too far from now a game completely without any form of cashshop releases and becomes so popular that it makes a statement to other developers so that this trash meta finally goes in the grave.

    Kinda, but this change does not really alter the development. The only differnece is that the ability to use cosmetics has to be unlocked a bit later (lvl 25)
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    CROW3 wrote: »
    I think the cosmetics ship has sailed for Ashes.

    To answer your question ‘why would we let that happen?’ The practical response is to vote with your wallet. If you disagree, don’t buy cosmetics. If you disagree so vehemently, don’t sub for the game.

    I am fairly certain that most people that bought cosmetics would not have anything against doing a small quest chain to unlock the ability to use them lol
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    Marzzo wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    I think the cosmetics ship has sailed for Ashes.

    To answer your question ‘why would we let that happen?’ The practical response is to vote with your wallet. If you disagree, don’t buy cosmetics. If you disagree so vehemently, don’t sub for the game.

    I am fairly certain that most people that bought cosmetics would not have anything against doing a small quest chain to unlock the ability to use them lol

    I don't want my enjoyment of the game to have an arbitrary restriction at level 25 ... especially if it's at the expense of another player's immersion.
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    Marzzo wrote: »
    I am fairly certain that most people that bought cosmetics would not have anything against doing a small quest chain to unlock the ability to use them lol

    I’m pretty certain your certainty isn’t as certain as you certainly assert.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    I am fairly certain that most people that bought cosmetics would not have anything against doing a small quest chain to unlock the ability to use them lol

    I’m pretty certain your certainty isn’t as certain as you certainly assert.

    Could be, guess modern gamers really, really need to equip all those store cosmetics ASAP
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    Well, you already have to unlock the ability to use most of the cosmetics. If you've bought a cosmetic mount, you don't start the game with it. You're only able to use that cosmetic once your character has an actual mount to re-fit the cosmetic skin onto. It's pretty much just a way to re-skin something you didn't much like the look of.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Well, you already have to unlock the ability to use most of the cosmetics. If you've bought a cosmetic mount, you don't start the game with it. You're only able to use that cosmetic once your character has an actual mount to re-fit the cosmetic skin onto. It's pretty much just a way to re-skin something you didn't much like the look of.

    Most skins for mounts are tier 1 skins (excluding gliding and flying skins)

    you will get a tier 1 mount very, very early. During the first day in fact, maybe even first hours, if they cost as much as in the alpha.

    The problem is not mounts though, its the armor. You literally start the game with armor and weapons.
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    VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Marzzo wrote: »

    What the hell are you talking about? In my system, the cash shop is still there. All the planned cosmetics are still there. Everyone can use all cosmetics. They just need to do a quest a bit later (lvl 25) before they can use them?

    Your system devalues the cosmetics. No one is going to want to deal with that. With a time to cap being an estimated 45 days.

    Intrepid is worst off waiting 45 days to sale you a cosmetic. A lot of noobs log in, don't like the way they look, buy a cosmetic, and then play. A lot of people are not going to make it to cap. You are missing out on all off the sales of people who don't make it far.

    There is also the sunk cost fallacy with new players that bought cosmetics. Sometimes people will buy cosmetics early on. And reach a point where they would have otherwise quit, but keep going for longer because they feel more invested. This potentially is missing the opportunity to create a long term player.

    YOU WANT NOOBS BUYING COSMETICS. ITS FREE REALESTATE!

    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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    MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »

    What the hell are you talking about? In my system, the cash shop is still there. All the planned cosmetics are still there. Everyone can use all cosmetics. They just need to do a quest a bit later (lvl 25) before they can use them?

    Your system devalues the cosmetics. No one is going to want to deal with that. With a time to cap being an estimated 45 days.

    Intrepid is worst off waiting 45 days to sale you a cosmetic. A lot of noobs log in, don't like the way they look, buy a cosmetic, and then play. A lot of people are not going to make it to cap. You are missing out on all off the sales of people who don't make it far.

    There is also the sunk cost fallacy with new players that bought cosmetics. Sometimes people will buy cosmetics early on. And reach a point where they would have otherwise quit, but keep going for longer because they feel more invested. This potentially is missing the opportunity to create a long term player.

    YOU WANT NOOBS BUYING COSMETICS. ITS FREE REALESTATE!

    The cap was not the only option, but I see your point and you make a good one. I guess I am just interested in different things than others
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    TrUSivrajTrUSivraj Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2021
    Marzzo wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Well, you already have to unlock the ability to use most of the cosmetics. If you've bought a cosmetic mount, you don't start the game with it. You're only able to use that cosmetic once your character has an actual mount to re-fit the cosmetic skin onto. It's pretty much just a way to re-skin something you didn't much like the look of.

    Most skins for mounts are tier 1 skins (excluding gliding and flying skins)

    you will get a tier 1 mount very, very early. During the first day in fact, maybe even first hours, if they cost as much as in the alpha.

    The problem is not mounts though, its the armor. You literally start the game with armor and weapons.

    A counter argument I have made a few times with those that dislike cash shops is this.. The more options you have in an MMO, the higher chances you have of having a look that no one else has, or that at least no one else uses as much as you do, which adds individuality (one of human beings biggest covets IRL) and creates longevity to that player's game life.

    Many high-end cosmetics will be achievement-only at that, though high-end will always be subjective to the individual seeing the set. I make a great example, as I prefer more subtle and native looks (vine vestment bundle) rather than shiny plated armor.
    A high end piece for me would be a complete reversal of what most players I know would want (edgy).

    Ontop of that point, the amount of gear a team of artists could create will always overshadow the amount of content an MMO could throw out to fit every single piece in "naturally", so why let that creative piece go unnoticed, when you could simply add it to the cash shop, which again adds even more variety and visual discoverability within the game.
    Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
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    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    We are being compensated for the cash shop and cosmetics existing. There is no box price.

    Cosmetics are a major component of their business model, and it's not going to change.

    ^This.^

    Taking away cash shop cosmetics means you're asking Steven and the Team to essentially survive on subscription only.

    That's not sustainable for the cadence of content that Ashes wants to deliver.

    Fortunately, Steven has said a number of times that "comparable" in-game cosmetics can be found in lieu of the cash shop version, @Marzzo.

    I agree with everything above, however there is probably some middle ground with the original post however. Introduction of some "currency" required in order to apply any given cosmetic to an item, whereby that "currency" is earned through playing the game (and is not available to purchase for real cash).

    There are plenty of games that use a similar system, and often by the time you hit max level you've got more of the currency than you'll ever need. It does however tend to create progression feeling during the leveling experience where you have to be choosy with applying a cosmetic, and you don't see level 5s running around decked out with cosmetics that make them look like a max level raid boss.
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    KenpachiKenpachi Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Well, you're in luck! Steven confirmed that cosmetics will be locked until you get the proper materials to make them/use them.
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    unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Kenpachi wrote: »
    Well, you're in luck! Steven confirmed that cosmetics will be locked until you get the proper materials to make them/use them.

    Guess you missed the later clarification after the stream where that only applies to single, individual pieces and not full paperdoll costumes or cosmetic pets. (which can be summoned from level 1). Ship, building, and mount cosmetics still require you to have the item to skin them.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
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