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How detailed do you want the fishing gear to be in Ashes?

NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited January 13 in General Discussion
In real life we have J hooks, circle hooks, offset and non-offset hooks, lures, topwater lures, jigs, bucktail jigs, different types of leader, bobbers and weights, all kinds of different types of rods and reels and lines and the list goes on. Then there's different bait too obviously, like different types of fake bait, cut bait and live bait. Chumming is a thing too. The bait, hook, leader and line are usually the most important parts of RL fishing gear. The rod less so in comparison.

The MMOs I have played focused mostly on the bait and the quality/rarity of the rod, not all the other stuff.

Those of you who enjoy fishing in MMORPGs, do you prefer to keep the simplicity of the fishing gear to what we usually see in these games? Or would you like a deeper and more complex fishing gear system that closer mimics RL fishing?

Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Keep it fairly simple.
    I'd rather it not feel like a job.
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited January 13
    Dygz wrote: »
    Keep it fairly simple.
    I'd rather it not feel like a job.

    If going fishing irl feels like a job for you then you just dont like fishing at all. He didnt even describe something difficult it just has more than three choices you can make. Sheesh

    As for me, bring on a fleshed out fishing experience that I can sink my teeth into.
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  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I lean simple to not overwhelm people, at least for your normal shore fishing.

    If they have something like deep sea fishing, could be cool if it uses a different rod that is more customizable.
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  • Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I would love for fishing gear to be as complex as regular gear. All the things from the original post are great. Make a large tree for everything listed above. Add some ability to vary the stats of pieces the same we do for armor and weapons. Maybe the ability to colour your stuff different colour for cosmetic purposes.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sathrago wrote: »
    If going fishing irl feels like a job for you then you just dont like fishing at all. He didnt even describe something difficult it just has more than three choices you can make.
    I abhor fishing in real life. For a whole bunch of other annoying reasons besides just dealing with different types of lures.
    Fishing is not difficult - it's tedious.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    I've always seen fishing as an indicator of lifeskill depth in an mmo. Which is funny since I don't really invest time in the fishing skill itself - it more or less ends up being a black jellybean test.

    That said, I think FFXIV found the best balance (of mmos I've played) of active / inactive fishing. I like the mixture of bait v. lures. I like the fishing guide & log. I like that I could just cast and reel in if I want, or I can use a number of active abilities to get larger / more rare fish. I also like that I don't have to hunt for the lure/hook as in wow. More active fishing mini-games like those in RDR2 and Far Cry 5 are interesting like once, but are so tedious I don't pick it up again.
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  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member
    edited January 14
    Yours truly doesn't really consider things like rod and bait quality as necessary, BUT:

    Different regions should have different fish and refuse(anything you reel in asides from fish); You shouldn't be able to complete an entire fishing collection by doing it in one spot.

    It should also be able to be done while on a boat, methinks.

    Beyond this, I've never been impressed, nor too invested in fishing, in any game. Anytime I've hosted events related to fishing, it's typically been reserved for limited attendance times, like a Sunday morning. It's not a prime-time event.



  • CROW3 wrote: »
    I've always seen fishing as an indicator of lifeskill depth in an mmo. Which is funny since I don't really invest time in the fishing skill itself - it more or less ends up being a black jellybean test.

    That said, I think FFXIV found the best balance (of mmos I've played) of active / inactive fishing. I like the mixture of bait v. lures. I like the fishing guide & log. I like that I could just cast and reel in if I want, or I can use a number of active abilities to get larger / more rare fish. I also like that I don't have to hunt for the lure/hook as in wow. More active fishing mini-games like those in RDR2 and Far Cry 5 are interesting like once, but are so tedious I don't pick it up again.

    if you have not seen it yet, they updated spear fishing in ff14's latest expansion and it now is a full on mini game where you have to time your button press to spear specific fish as they swim by.

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  • [/quote]

    if you have not seen it yet, they updated spear fishing in ff14's latest expansion and it now is a full on mini game where you have to time your button press to spear specific fish as they swim by.

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    [/quote]

    Eh, I actually like Warframe’s spear fishing much more. It’s relatively simple yet engaging. It boils down to certain spears are better for certain fish, certain baits for fish and then merely spearing the fish yourself. (It’s rather forgiving on accuracy)

    That being said, I don’t expect such a system. It’s ok for different games to be different. Can’t say I want this game to be Warframe or Final Fantasy, but instead something…new.
  • BarrakusBarrakus Member
    edited January 13
    Making fishing complex is completely fine, make it as complex as avid fishers who want that content want it to be. A player should be able to fish all day if they want, and really dig into the content. That would be great, just because it is there doesn’t mean you absolutely have to do it as some folks are making it seem.

    Having said that, there should be no items tied to it that make it a requirement for players to do in order to optimize their characters. It should have economic value, certainly, but it should also be something that if a player never chooses to explore, it is not to the detriment of their character. Much like in real life, fishing is for feeding yourself, making money, or sport. You can even have fishing tournaments (Beware of Pirates!) and fisherman themed cosmetic rewards tied to it - there’s a ton developers could do!

    I don’t like fishing, I find it boring and sleep inducing, but I don’t think the fact that I dislike it is a reason to not make it immersive and engaging for those who do.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I really enjoyed fishing in both World of Warcraft and Lord of the Rings Online.

    I hate fishing in real life, but in real life you rarely catch a fish every 5 seconds.
     
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  • I thought New World's fishing was fun, not too complex and I loved how they used real images of fish. I wouldn't mind a little more complex but not much different.
  • It would be interesting to also consider recreation versus commercial fishing. I also don't want a complex system. The system in World of Warcraft was fine. I think a fishing pole, bait, and your fishing skill should contribute to your ability to catch fish. I don't think you need gloves or other items to increase your fishing skill level. I am not looking to play a fishing simulator.

    It would be interesting though whether a person was fishing at the bank of a river versus fishing on a boat. We know that there is going to be naval combat and boats in the game along with the oceans/seas. Will the game have commercial fishing with nets? Like it might require 4 players to hold and cast the net or the net might be attached to the boat. Something similar to crab fishing on Deadliest Catch.

  • It should be as easy as any of the other artisan professions.
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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 14
    Nerror wrote: »
    In real life we have J hooks, circle hooks, offset and non-offset hooks, lures, topwater lures, jigs, bucktail jigs, different types of leader, bobbers and weights, all kinds of different types of rods and reels and lines and the list goes on. Then there's different bait too obviously, like different types of fake bait, cut bait and live bait. Chumming is a thing too. The bait, hook, leader and line are usually the most important parts of RL fishing gear. The rod less so in comparison.

    The MMOs I have played focused mostly on the bait and the quality/rarity of the rod, not all the other stuff.

    Those of you who enjoy fishing in MMORPGs, do you prefer to keep the simplicity of the fishing gear to what we usually see in these games? Or would you like a deeper and more complex fishing gear system that closer mimics RL fishing?

    I want location relative to types of fish, to play an integral part just as I want location to heavily effect what farming goods are most profitable. I want some of those complexities you listed about fishing to be available in the same way I have a huge list of similar technical points about farming to be present.

    People who are Gathering type artisans will most likely be attracted to it because there isn't a single recipie to follow for success. Having technical components from real life in their mmo counter parts are the way to make that happen. I hope all Gathering type artisan professions have this sort of thing. I would hate for cookie cutter solutions to be what it boils down to as it does in so many other mmos. Leave that sort of thing to the Crafting artisan professions.

    The way I see artisan professions being in terms of 'who gets attracted to which' are: gathering requires location adaptive work that has several technical approaches for different styles of play, while still letting people just 'mindlessly do the task', proccessing will be geared more toward people who like constantly investigating and fine tuning their techniques, and crafting be more for people who like adapting to macroeconomic factors and being able to make hard calculations on their possible products since the recipes and costs of materials are largely known, but subject to external server events and flavor of the month type stuff.

    I think it's possible for IS to achieve this and will be a major motivator for attracting artisan players from other games. If it turns out to be more simplistic than this, I'm not expecting it to be that big a driver for players over all since there are games that have perfected various gathering type crafting professions in particular (FFXI for fishing and BDO for farming for example.)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I am a fan of different fish only being found in certain environments.
  • A bit of complexity to keep things fun is always welcomed but, please keep it inline with other professions?

    Otherwise at some point the cooking folks are gonna complain that you should model all kinds of different kitchen utensils (e.g. different knives for cutting meat & fish & vegetables, and if you get a minigame for catching a fish then one may argue there should also be a minigame for filleting a fish :D)

    And then the crafting folks are of coz gonna join the party and demand all kinds of complex crafting gear (hammer anvil tongs furnaces chisels grinders etc. etc. etc.) and minigames

    And then things spiral out of control.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    there should also be a minigame for filleting a fish :D

    Sponsored by McDonald’s? I like where you’re going with this. Some corporate sponsorship might help with server costs…
     
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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Idk, what I'm looking for from crafting is a certain level of engagement and complexity.

    Deciding on the right bait and tackle for your desired fish, is technically 'complex' in that you have to figure out the right options relative to your goals and preferences This act of choosing the right things for your desired outcome adds some technical complexity, but it is also indirectly adds to the immersion. More importantly, it doesn't require that much more in the way of assets if you don't want it to.

    Things like minigames otoh, are much more geared towards mechanical alertness. For crafts that involve you actually going out and interacting with the world, mostly the production and gathering side of things, the more players probably want some level of this mechanical alertness.Minigames are much more about immersion, but they can have elements such as different fish having different patterns to their pull and pull at different strengths depending on size, that could effectively add another layer of technical complexity. Minigames that add both technical and mechanical complexity are good for a game to have if they are serious about crafting being an important part of their community. Things like filleting a fish, I would argue, don't add that much more technical complexity. Nor does it really cause mechanical alertness since it's not really time sensitive. You probably would just be hitting a button repeatedly while waving your mouse around.

    I say all that to really say the simple thing: there is a limit to what is a reasonable/good decision relative to how much benefit any give minigame can add to your crafting system. There's probably some difference in opinion where the lines are, but they can be drawn pretty reasonably. technical complexity otoh, should almost always be considered if people are really asking for it since it's relatively easy to implement.

    There are probably some crafters who will ask for unreasonable things, but there will be plenty of others like myself who recognize how finite the companies resources are and will probably argue with them about it.
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