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The potion launcher - should that technology exist?

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In AoC apocalypse, there was a weapon called the potion launcher. Personally I dislike modern/semi modern weapons in MMO (like guns etc)

The potion granade launcher, is blurring the lines, but I feel that it does not fit into the game

What are your thoughts on potion granade launchers?
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited January 2022
    Too many mmos do steampunk.
    Nothing unique about it.
    Doesn't add value or systems.
    Looks bad imho
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    back in my day, we had rigorous excerises tossing barrels full of stone, readying for the day we had to headshot allies with eli- "MEDIC, we have another bleeder!!"
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    I think the game will absolutely need guns, how else will we sink those caravan ships? At this point, I can't decide whether I like potion launcher or would prefer regular black powder cannons.

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    Tulima wrote: »
    I think the game will absolutely need guns, how else will we sink those caravan ships? At this point, I can't decide whether I like potion launcher or would prefer regular black powder cannons.

    What about the good old ship catapult ? As far as this game is considered to be a Fantasy I personally
    feel, that "real" gunpowder driven guns are misplaced ...
    But of course this reflects my personal opinion, only.

    Kind regards
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    Silberwolf wrote: »
    Tulima wrote: »
    I think the game will absolutely need guns, how else will we sink those caravan ships? At this point, I can't decide whether I like potion launcher or would prefer regular black powder cannons.

    What about the good old ship catapult ? As far as this game is considered to be a Fantasy I personally
    feel, that "real" gunpowder driven guns are misplaced ...
    But of course this reflects my personal opinion, only.

    Kind regards

    Well, there is nothing fantasy about swords and bows either yet they are an essential part of any fantasy MMORPG. Either way, IS stated they don't want gunpowder in the game so not sure if there is any use discussing it.

    However, this post is about a potion launcher which according to the wiki is going to be a magical form of gunpowder. Firearms were actually used in Europe during the late middle ages and earlier in China, so it will fit the game well. I think it's great that we will have a new type of weapon that isn't typically in other MMOs so I look forward to testing it out actually.

    To be honest I didn't even know ship catapults were a thing. If they would be fun to play with in-game, I have nothing against them.
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    Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    the potion launcher is the concept for ship cannons. as far as i know you wont have potion muskets or anything
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    the potion launcher is the concept for ship cannons. as far as i know you wont have potion muskets or anything

    My understanding of the wiki is that there will be one handheld version and one for the ships.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Potion_launchers
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The last time I heard them in a dev stream talking about it, they were leaning towards a no to the potion launcher in the MMO. I agree with that.
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    We don't need guns for naval combat. Bows and arrows work. You can ram. You can grapple and board. You can use Greek Fire, like the Greeks did.
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    SathragoSathrago Member
    edited January 2022
    from a lore perspective these idiots spent thousands of years without magic stuck in the medieval era. The fact that they never advanced has been a big question I have had for a long time.
    5000x1000px_sathrago_commission_ravenjuu_1.jpg?ex=665ce6c0&is=665b9540&hm=1fa03cbbd9ea4d641eaf4ca6f133d013d392b1968d6ca9add7d433259c509d09&
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
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    tautau wrote: »
    We don't need guns for naval combat. Bows and arrows work. You can ram. You can grapple and board. You can use Greek Fire, like the Greeks did.

    No guns. How about potion launchers?
    Can you sink a ship with bows and arrows? What if you don't have one equipped.
    Ramming grappling and boarding are only viable if you have numbers/higher gear score. What if you have a smaller crew. Shouldn't there be an alternative tactic for them to destroy/defeat the opponent's ship?
    Greek fire sounds cool, can't find it on the wiki though. Maybe it has another name.
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    Nerror wrote: »
    The last time I heard them in a dev stream talking about it, they were leaning towards a no to the potion launcher in the MMO. I agree with that.

    Do you remember which stream?
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Tulima If you don't have higher numbers &/or gear score and a smaller crew, you should probably lose if you choose to fight.

    You cannot sink a ship with bows and arrows, but you can kill the crew then take the ship.

    Greek fire isn't in the game, thus far. But you can Google it. I was using as my mental reference pre-gunpowder naval tactics. For example, Rome vs Carthage or Greece vs Asia Minor.
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Tulima wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    The last time I heard them in a dev stream talking about it, they were leaning towards a no to the potion launcher in the MMO. I agree with that.

    Do you remember which stream?

    No :( It might have been a 2019 one, or early 2020.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tulima wrote: »
    the potion launcher is the concept for ship cannons. as far as i know you wont have potion muskets or anything

    My understanding of the wiki is that there will be one handheld version and one for the ships.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Potion_launchers

    There won't be. There was a handheld version of the potion launcher used in the "Apocalypse" game that was a Battle Royale experiment that Intrepid used to test their engine. (Apocalypse ended and there is no indication it will be available again in the future.) Since then, they said they'll be using potion launchers purely in ship combat as a large-scale weapon akin to a catapult launching Greek Fire or other incendiaries (which is not at all modern; ancient Greeks used a similar combat technique).

    It's possible they'll change their mind and reintroduce them to personal combat at some point, but I don't see that happening. We already have 4 other magical ranged weapons that players can carry around. We don't need a 5th one. (I say this as someone planning to mainly play a Mage; I'm quite satisfied with our options.)

    Note that "potions" are not modern in any way. They are fantastical and have no real-world equivalent. They exist purely because of magic; think of them as magic in liquid form. Potion launchers are basically ways for ships to cast spells at each other. In a game like Ashes of Creation where magic is common and plentiful, it fits pretty well.

    A potion launcher weapon isn't like a black powder weapon. It is what this culture developed instead of black powder weapons.
     
    Hhak63P.png
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    TulimaTulima Member
    edited January 2022
    tautau wrote: »
    @Tulima If you don't have higher numbers &/or gear score and a smaller crew, you should probably lose if you choose to fight.

    You cannot sink a ship with bows and arrows, but you can kill the crew then take the ship.

    Greek fire isn't in the game, thus far. But you can Google it. I was using as my mental reference pre-gunpowder naval tactics. For example, Rome vs Carthage or Greece vs Asia Minor.

    I have to disagree with your first statement. The group with superior ship/ship equipment should win( e.g better potion launchers/greek fire)

    If you are asking for greek fire to replace potion launchers then sure, I have no issues with it.
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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    -whispers- greek fire is over rated
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    I never fully understand this need for conforming with all previous mmos and never do anything original on a new game. I think because of that people create their own boredom. Please let the potion launcher in, it is a good and innovating idea. People have often seen enough broadhead arrows even when they claim otherwise. And if it is not yet the case it might soon be.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 2022
    JustVine wrote: »
    -whispers- greek fire is over rated

    I dunno, it was pretty cool that you had ancient Byzantines spraying the stuff out from pressurized nozzles mounted on their ships. They carved these beast heads and had the stuff coming out of their mouths, so it looked like a huge fire-breathing creature in the water. And the stuff was basically identical to a modern day flamethrower as employed by militaries around the world. This was being used back in the 7th century; in a time sometimes called the Dark Ages, or extremely early Medieval period in Europe, you had ships mounted with modern flame throwers. That is freaking AWESOME.

    This is a crude 12th century concept of what it was like, but contemporary accounts painted a much more awesome picture than what this later painting tried to illustrate.

    1920px-Greekfire-madridskylitzes1.jpg

    Here's a handheld version, from an early 17th century manuscript speculating on what it would look like. Tell me that's not oddly futuristic.

    Hand-siphon_for_Greek_fire%2C_medieval_illumination_%28detail%29.jpg

    Funny enough, it actually looks a lot like the potion launchers used in Apocalypse.

    800px-PotionLauncherModel2.png
     
    Hhak63P.png
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    As long as they're only ever firing Healing Potions at me, I'm happy for them to use it. But yeah, I'd rather it was more along the lines of the catapult-style rather than the explosive-style.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I knew some nerd would take the bait. Cool stuff no sarc.
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    edited January 2022
    "If there is anything that this horrible tragedy can teach us, it's that a male model's life is a precious, precious commodity. Just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't not die in a freak gasoline fight potion launcher accident."
    community_management.gif
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    We would have lost the potion laucher technology when we escaped from Verra. Apocalypse was the last stand against the corruption.
    Presumably, we would have lost a lot of the technology we used to have when those few who escaped arrived in Sanctus and found it a magic-barren world.
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    If they changed the graphics to a crossbow-like gadget or a sling-shot thing then it could be consistent and for sieges they could go with the weighted-rock throwing apparatus (trebuchet?) that's always throwing fireballs and such, instead it could be a caldron filled with potion goo.
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    YES i agree with you
    i HATE seeing modern stuff in FANTASY magical world
    tell me how many people in hogwarts used bike or cars? none they didnt need to.
    in a world where you have magic and magical enchanted items, you never DEVELOP THE NEED to have mechanical engineering to create engine that runs on steam or oil and needs maintenance and is messy...

    i DETEST potion launcher . crossbow. guns . cars. steampunk . pumps. engines
    in games.

    need to have water delivered to a village ? get a very expensive and big (MUST NOT BE EASY TO OBTAIN) water crystal or enchanted gem that pours water from another dimension (it could be a water world)
    the enchantment can fade in time and add demand...

    MY POINT : any kind of engineering is unnecessary/unwanted in magical fantasy world where magic exists at large. and i hate potion launcher/grenade launcher/steam things... / mechanical things
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    So, are you also opposed to bows and arrows, since they are mechanical devices?

    Are you opposed to blacksmithing, since that is engineering? Thus, are you opposed to metal armor and weapons?
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2022
    caedwyn wrote: »
    enchanted gem that pours water from another dimension

    The Elixir of Death?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    What if the potion launcher looked less visually like a grenade launcher?
    And more like a slingshot that yeets explosive flasks or whatever?

    It would just be fireballs for the magically challenged, and give a constant demand for alchemists to make ammo for
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    No Launcher. Stupid.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    What if the potion launcher looked less visually like a grenade launcher?
    And more like a slingshot that yeets explosive flasks or whatever?

    It would just be fireballs for the magically challenged, and give a constant demand for alchemists to make ammo for
    If indeed they are going to be mounted on ships only, I think they should look like small scale siege weapons. Launch big potion-filled glass orbs via trebuchet or onager, or maybe have a ballista with the head of the spear replaced with a potion-filled ampoule. In all cases, as the projectile hits the enemy ship, the glass shatters causing the potion to splash everywhere and do whatever the potion was made to do. (Melt with acid, freeze, burst into flames, shroud everything with smoke, stun people, emit a cloud of poison, just use your imagination.)
     
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