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Retail World of Warcraft & Lost Ark Feel Like Massively Multiplayer Single Player Games To Me

When playing the two mmorpg's Lost Ark & the retail version of World of Warcraft I've gotten a feeling of loneliness/isolation as the game doesn't seem to encourage playing with others outside of dungeons/raids. Will there be organic incentive to play /w others in AoC, like in classic World of Warcraft (I played/partied with more people in my single month of playing in the open world of classic WoW... than probably 6 months of playin all parts of retail WoW)? I wonder what the factors are involved in that result. Lookin forward to your game, am impressed by the work you've all done in and out of the game thus far.

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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited February 2022
    The changing nature of players is the reason why mmos are becoming singleplayers with optional pvp and instanced raiding.

    Studios realized that these new "more mature" players want to mindlessly "explore" an open world and that they are also willing to pay for appearance changes.


    When I play a game I want it to be engaging. Ez isnt engaging for me. Just like FPS games arent for me.

    But... money talks. My hope is that AoC is truly a passion product. A real mmo. A world in which progress is rewarding, there is strength in organizations and there are no barricades between players, friends or enemies. And I hope thay use their money to polish and maintain their game, constantly.
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    Good points, @George_Black.

    To add to that, Intrepid already has several game systems that will necessitate players grouping up.

    The most obvious one is the node siege.

    But, caravans, world bosses, raids, dungeons, and other systems will also be players working together.

    Sometimes I wonder how Intrepid is going to get all this done. Even with a "flexible" release date. ;)
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Good points, @George_Black.

    To add to that, Intrepid already has several game systems that will necessitate players grouping up.

    The most obvious one is the node siege.

    But, caravans, world bosses, raids, dungeons, and other systems will also be players working together.

    Sometimes I wonder how Intrepid is going to get all this done. Even with a "flexible" release date. ;)

    By not spending time/money on singleplayer elements (solo content, 100000 non combat classes, voice acting, complex npcs etc etc)
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited February 2022
    When I play a game I want it to be engaging.
    No, you want it to be competitive.

    You conflate engaging, multiplayer and competitive all in to one thing. Any game system that isn't in this box is something you consider not worth having.

    It is perfectly viable for exploration content to be non-solo. Instanced raiding is by necessity non-solo. You can't complain about these things as being a symptom of MMO's becoming more solo.

    All they are is developers realizing that not all multiplayer content needs to also be competitive. Many players (most, I would argue) prefer cooperative to competitive gameplay.
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Noaani wrote: »
    When I play a game I want it to be engaging.
    No, you want it to be competitive.

    You conflate engaging, multiplayer and competitive all in to one thing. Any game system that isn't in this box is something you consider not worth having.

    It is perfectly viable for exploration content to be non-solo. Instanced raiding is by necessity non-solo. You can't complain about these things as being a symptom of MMO's becoming more solo.

    All they are is developers realizing that not all multiplayer content needs to also be competitive. Many players (most, I would argue) prefer cooperative to competitive gameplay.

    You dont make sense. Are you sure you dindnt want to start arguying me with on a different thread, not this one?
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    And if I wanted it to be "competitive" wouldnt I be playing mobas?

    What non-solo viable stuff are you talking about?
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    Noaani wrote: »
    When I play a game I want it to be engaging.
    No, you want it to be competitive.

    You conflate engaging, multiplayer and competitive all in to one thing. Any game system that isn't in this box is something you consider not worth having.

    It is perfectly viable for exploration content to be non-solo. Instanced raiding is by necessity non-solo. You can't complain about these things as being a symptom of MMO's becoming more solo.

    All they are is developers realizing that not all multiplayer content needs to also be competitive. Many players (most, I would argue) prefer cooperative to competitive gameplay.

    You dont make sense. Are you sure you dindnt want to start arguying me with on a different thread, not this one?

    You just dont "argue" with Noaani.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Ehrgeiz wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    When I play a game I want it to be engaging.
    No, you want it to be competitive.

    You conflate engaging, multiplayer and competitive all in to one thing. Any game system that isn't in this box is something you consider not worth having.

    It is perfectly viable for exploration content to be non-solo. Instanced raiding is by necessity non-solo. You can't complain about these things as being a symptom of MMO's becoming more solo.

    All they are is developers realizing that not all multiplayer content needs to also be competitive. Many players (most, I would argue) prefer cooperative to competitive gameplay.

    You dont make sense. Are you sure you dindnt want to start arguying me with on a different thread, not this one?

    You just dont "argue" with Noaani.

    I would argue this point.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Freeholds and open world housing, in addition to the dynamic progression (and regression) of Nodes, should foster stronger community bonds in-game than we typically see in previous MMORPGs.
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    This is what the majority wants. Games are a product, and if you want to make money you need to appeal and appease the majority. Games are a product to make money in the first place. Money is what matters. All is about money.
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2022
    I disagree, @BlackBrony, because that is the philosophy which make games trend to be like every other game thus making them all boring and weak.

    From a business perspective, one of the best strategies (which IS is adopting) is Differentiation. Rather than try to imitate others, you make your product different in a way that is important to the customer. This is different than what WoW did, which was to try to appeal to a very broad group of people, similar to what you suggest AoC ought to do. We are all aware of the criticisms and problems that the community tosses at WoW for their strategy.

    An example of a differentiated product could be Mercedes-Benz. While the purpose of an automobile is to move you from point A to point B, which a Ford or Prius can do as well as a Mercedes, Mercedes has convinced many people that they should pay much more for a MB because of what? Prestige? Self-image of the driver? Whatever the cause, they have successfully differentiated their product in a way that is important enough to the customer that they pay double for something which essentially functions no better, still gets you from A to B.

    So IS, I think, is wise not to attempt to be all things to all people, rather to strike out as a Different product.

    If you are interested in different business strategies, google Porter's Five Forces model.
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    mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    This is what the majority wants. Games are a product, and if you want to make money you need to appeal and appease the majority. Games are a product to make money in the first place. Money is what matters. All is about money.

    Everything is popular until the next thing comes and it isn't. The most popular shooter games were death match style shooters like CoD until Pubg/fortnite came out and BRs took over. Run and gun shooter gameplay was the most popular, then riot made a tactical shooter Valarent which has been successful.

    As tautau said, differentiating yourself can also be a smart move. Instead of trying to copy the current popular products and directly competing with them, you create something different. Not only do you capitalize on an underserved market and create the go to for people in that market, but people who normally prefer what's popular may play your game for that different experience.
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    Well, AOC plans to have nodes and a complicated non instanced housing system within a node, that in itself will foster a community within the node. The fact your house or freehold outside the city walls has the ability to get destroyed if your node gets destroyed will incentivize many players to join node sieges. Caravans will propagate trade and PVP which will further encourage player contact. Raids and dungeons of course encourage people to group. What has happened in recent years is the attrition of the player base within big name games like WoW other games has led to developers spending less on development for the game. (why make new content for a dieing game) Its easier to create single player content than it is to make multiplayer content. Hopefully with AOC being designed to become a staple in the MMO genre they will have a large enough community on launch to continue to help foster long standing quality content that promotes a healthy community through grouping etc.
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    I miss the good old days of trying to do a difficult quest, and someone comes by trying to do the same quest and you party up and achieve the task. When was the last time an MMO did that?
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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hmm, well I know my own gaming history was skewed towards that being the case in FFXI and I've heard similar stories of FFXIV being that way depending on your friend group and gear progression. I know that early GW2 felt like that (granted I am talking early GW2 and don't have anything to say on the matter relative to modern GW2 experience.) I know this was my general experience during the Alpha of AoC though again granted, this is due to my friend group and general social nature not strictly due to the games inherent design. Heck even non-mmo's like MHW and DS3 had this feeling. But it's all dependent on the people involved.

    I feel self aware enough to know it is a combination of good quest design and systems design meeting social norms and over all behavior of the individuals involved. As many would like to lament, a good portion of this is the social trends and norms of the over all gaming population. The more systems designs and well designed quests we are, the more possible it will be to have moments like this happen, but it's only half the equation.
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    When playing the two mmorpg's Lost Ark & the retail version of World of Warcraft I've gotten a feeling of loneliness/isolation as the game doesn't seem to encourage playing with others outside of dungeons/raids. Will there be organic incentive to play /w others in AoC, like in classic World of Warcraft (I played/partied with more people in my single month of playing in the open world of classic WoW... .

    Trueeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    McShave wrote: »
    I miss the good old days of trying to do a difficult quest, and someone comes by trying to do the same quest and you party up and achieve the task. When was the last time an MMO did that?
    I did that several times in the early weeks of WoW Shadowlands.
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