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Player Theory; Tulnar, their religion, and no reverence for the Seven.

SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
"The Tulnar religion is a combination of religious beliefs of the major races as well as pagan beliefs of the minor races that evolved over time as they coexisted together in the Underrealm"

Tulnar begin, where the limits of the God's power and divinity end. After the Exodus, Tulnar remained in the Underrealm, the place closest to the heart of Verra. There they remained, the four races and minor races until they became a single people.

Realistically, Tulnar are the proof that the Gods have limits to their divinity and that Tulnar are realistically came to be from a greater cosmological force and phenomenon. The four divine races are creations, in other words they are a fleshly automaton of the Seven, just as the Ancients are the first creations, they still exist because of the protection of their Creators.

So what cosmological forces are behind the creation of the Tulnar that surpass the limits of the Gods? Chaos and Nature, the true Destroyer and Orderer of the cosmos.

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I've read through all the lore, but after the Apocalypse and Exodus, the limits of the Gods both the Seven and the Others are truly illustrated because of the very existence of the Tulnar, they prove that there greater cosmological forces in the world.

Being close to the heartbeat of Vera, it would make a lot more sense that Tulnar never worship Gods after understanding their limitations and rather their spirituality is directly linked with Vera and the greater cosmological forces of the Ashes of Creation metaverse.

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    MybroViajeroMybroViajero Member
    edited April 2022
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    ngl , I would like to see a story with religious drama, technology , studies , advances , conspiracy , politics , morality , that they involve the religion giving weight in the history of Verra.
    I think that many MMOs have not played exploited the full potential of religions, not only as "religion" but as a very powerful source of "lore".

    Like the times of, The Templar Crusades, The Holy Inquisition, The Dominican Order.

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    I would also like to see stories referring to the conspiracies that surround religion, the Illuminati, Freemasons, secrecy.

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    Religion has a lot of potential, I hope Intrepid knows how to play with it.
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    CawwCaww Member
    They could be followers of Gaia

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    mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2022
    I believe the gods or at least the god of creation, did save the tulnar in the underrealm and shield them from the corruption. I don't think the gods were ever worshipped as omnipotent beings and i'm not sure why the tulnar would blame them for not doing more. Just because they have limits doesn't mean they aren't powerful and don't have direct influence on the world.

    Essense exists across multiple planes and the gods, which are beings of essense, exist closest to it's source. Being closer to Verra's core doesn't mean you are closer to the essense.

    As a side note, there is a thought that Tulnar are the Ancients 2.0 since they are a combination of all the major races.
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    edited April 2022
    I can see the Tulnar being angry at the returning races, and maybe even the gods themselves. Maybe not all the gods, after all - places for them to hide were provided. But they still had to stay and live through whatever transpired on Verra. It couldn't have been pleasant for them. So I can see them harboring resentment. This resentment would affect the development of their culture and religion. There is so much to theorycraft on here. It's one of the reasons I got so interesting in the game. So much RP and character development potential!

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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Great replies, I just think the Tulnar don't need the Gods, because they existed without them so long. I can also see the four divine races try to tell the Tulnar how it is and the Tulnar just looking at them all like they're stupid sheep.
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    mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2022
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.
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    Kazan TennoKazan Tenno Member, Intrepid Pack
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.

    That's exactly what I was thinking as well, some Tulnar might revere the Seven with a cult like zeal. Some Tulnar might revere the heart of Verra herself. Some might vibe with the Cosmos.
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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I keep misreading the Seven as the Steven XD.

    Some fungal hivemind style mysticism could be cool.
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Solvryn wrote: »
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.
    The Tulnar might be resentful of the people returning from Sanctus.
    The Gods constructed the Portals, it's not their fault that some people didn't reach them before they closed.
    It's the people who lived on Sanctus who might not believe in gods.
    Living in the Underrealm does not equate with being separated from the gods.
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    I kinda wanna see some Tulnars see the other races as invaders, coming back and trying to take what the tulnars call home :P after the cowards fled from it though there portal/gates
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    That's what roleplaying is for...
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    VeeshanVeeshan Member
    edited April 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.
    The Tulnar might be resentful of the people returning from Sanctus.
    The Gods constructed the Portals, it's not their fault that some people didn't reach them before they closed.
    It's the people who lived on Sanctus who might not believe in gods.
    Living in the Underrealm does not equate with being separated from the gods.

    speaking of resentful i realy wanna see a large gui;d/faction on one server atleast to RP the resentful tulnars and actively war/attack the invading races that are coming back to the land the tulnars called home and making claim to it again. I feel alot of tulnars wouldnt know about the history of the other races so most would infact see them as invaders. (Like who knows the history of say ancient Egypt and so on which i think was earlier than the exodus of ashes world i could be wrong though i dont have a timeline of the AOC world).
    This would make for an interesting server dynamic if a server did this.

    Maybe give tulnar a racial passive for 10-20 % less corruption gain or faster corruption drop off assuming we wil see some racial passives for all the races :P Just means they can kill 10-20% more often which isnt significent i wouldnt think so should be fine and could help set up said dynamic on a server or two :P
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Depends on how many people are actually invading and/or negatively impacting the Underrealm.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Dygz wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.
    The Tulnar might be resentful of the people returning from Sanctus.
    The Gods constructed the Portals, it's not their fault that some people didn't reach them before they closed.
    It's the people who lived on Sanctus who might not believe in gods.
    Living in the Underrealm does not equate with being separated from the gods.

    Maybe! gotta wait for the lore I suppose.
    Well that's the point of the limits of their power and a reason why Tulnar could just not really be bothered with their reverence.
    Not sure about this one, they got religious temples.
    Just better Gods, like primal ones.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Who got religious temples?

    The Pagan gods aren't better.
    "The Tulnar religion is a combination of what were pagan beliefs from the minor races as well as the introduction of the beliefs and religions from the major races. Because they all came together in the Underrealm. So, you're going to naturally see a combination."
    ---Steven
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    Kazan TennoKazan Tenno Member, Intrepid Pack
    Solvryn wrote: »
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.

    That's exactly what I was thinking as well, some Tulnar might revere the Seven with a cult like zeal. Some Tulnar might revere the heart of Verra herself. Some might vibe with the Cosmos.

    Vibing with the cosmos is always a good option 🔮✨
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    mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Solvryn wrote: »
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.

    All the gods did was turn on the portals so people could escape. They didn't leave with them. They also protected the people who were forced to flee to the underrealm because they couldn't make it to the portals.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Solvryn wrote: »
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.

    That's exactly what I was thinking as well, some Tulnar might revere the Seven with a cult like zeal. Some Tulnar might revere the heart of Verra herself. Some might vibe with the Cosmos.

    Vibing with the cosmos is always a good option 🔮✨

    Thats what I was thinking.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Solvryn wrote: »
    The gods are real and they did save them. Not believing in the gods is like denying science. If anything, it would be the other way around. The tulnar have closer to the gods this whole time.

    Well they save people who went through the portals, the ancestors of the Tulnar were trapped underground with "minor" races.

    Tulnar came after the Apocalypse and Exodus.

    All the gods did was turn on the portals so people could escape. They didn't leave with them. They also protected the people who were forced to flee to the underrealm because they couldn't make it to the portals.

    That makes them very limited even still. They sound like Holy Engineers.

    Makes Tulnar society even more interesting.
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Solvryn wrote: »
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.

    That's exactly what I was thinking as well, some Tulnar might revere the Seven with a cult like zeal. Some Tulnar might revere the heart of Verra herself. Some might vibe with the Cosmos.

    Vibing with the cosmos is always a good option 🔮✨

    I'm also actually thinking that with the variation of faith and eclectic nature of the Tulnar we should have some interesting augments.
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    Kazan TennoKazan Tenno Member, Intrepid Pack
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    I quite like this take. Personally, I think that the Tulnar as a whole might not have one strong belief. I'd like to think some look not heir history and have disdain for the gods while some believe in them more than ever *because* of the limits to their power. Makes them a little bit more tangible/real.

    That's exactly what I was thinking as well, some Tulnar might revere the Seven with a cult like zeal. Some Tulnar might revere the heart of Verra herself. Some might vibe with the Cosmos.

    Vibing with the cosmos is always a good option 🔮✨

    I'm also actually thinking that with the variation of faith and eclectic nature of the Tulnar we should have some interesting augments.

    I think based on the fact that Tulnar are a mix of races and beasts that we'll have really interesting augments anyway. I didn't even think about the religious side of things (though I think faith-based augments are going to be a thing based on quest lines?)
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    mobtekmobtek Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Since the Tulnar stayed behind with the corruption, I expect some dark, disturbing lore and stories :)
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    mobtek wrote: »
    Since the Tulnar stayed behind with the corruption, I expect some dark, disturbing lore and stories :)

    I like dark stories that have depth, but when I hear dark, I think of things that confront our Shadow/Anima, not necessarily from a sick/twisted perspective.
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    mobtekmobtek Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Solvryn wrote: »
    mobtek wrote: »
    Since the Tulnar stayed behind with the corruption, I expect some dark, disturbing lore and stories :)

    I like dark stories that have depth, but when I hear dark, I think of things that confront our Shadow/Anima, not necessarily from a sick/twisted perspective.

    well they kinda survived a literal hell on verra, so sick and twisted might come as part of the package
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    mobtek wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    mobtek wrote: »
    Since the Tulnar stayed behind with the corruption, I expect some dark, disturbing lore and stories :)

    I like dark stories that have depth, but when I hear dark, I think of things that confront our Shadow/Anima, not necessarily from a sick/twisted perspective.

    well they kinda survived a literal hell on verra, so sick and twisted might come as part of the package

    It would fit, Tulnar have a wide berth of stories.
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