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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
[Combat Suggestion] A potential way to incorporate the style Steven had mentioned so many times.
Mycology
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Hey all, I'll keep this brief. I played the A1 over the summer pretty heavy and messed around a lot with tab target and the action combat. Unfortunately, to me, the tab target just felt so much better than the action. Why aim a spell when tabbing to the monster does the exact same thing? I believe I may have a unique idea/solution for this that may fit what you are looking for.
Go "Tab target focused" for combat, but have X amount of spells be "high reward skill shots". This would give you the opportunity to have the smooth combat of tab targeting, but gripping moments where you are going to need to aim and hit that important spell. (Maybe some type of over the shoulder Zoom in? AoE ground targeting would not be considered a "skill shot", but i guess it could be argued it is.)
So the break down would be like this:
-Action Combat Auto Attacks
-90% tab target spells
-classes having 1-2 "Action combat" spells (Big reward for landing, big feels bad if you miss.)
I think this would be a really nice implementation and set the "hybrid style" you guys are looking for. Let me know your ideas!
Go "Tab target focused" for combat, but have X amount of spells be "high reward skill shots". This would give you the opportunity to have the smooth combat of tab targeting, but gripping moments where you are going to need to aim and hit that important spell. (Maybe some type of over the shoulder Zoom in? AoE ground targeting would not be considered a "skill shot", but i guess it could be argued it is.)
So the break down would be like this:
-Action Combat Auto Attacks
-90% tab target spells
-classes having 1-2 "Action combat" spells (Big reward for landing, big feels bad if you miss.)
I think this would be a really nice implementation and set the "hybrid style" you guys are looking for. Let me know your ideas!
2
Comments
But...
I've been curious how this is doing to work out with ranged auto attacks too. Will they be action or tab? If they are action, will they hit scan or be projectiles? Will different weapons have different missile speeds to make them more difficult to dodge? Would you effectively make people want to control their character more like a FPS at this point? Or will it be tab target and just auto hit? If that's the case wouldn't they be 'easier' to play than the action combat counterparts?
If we go by your proposal
As a mage or ranger would the auto attacks really ever be worth it if they are objectively more difficult to land hits with?
Copied from the wiki:
"Action oriented and tab oriented versions of skills will have different characteristics. Variables will change based on which version is chosen.[25]
Damage.[25]
Charge up time.[25]
CC effects.[25]
Cooldown.[26]
Energy consumption.[26]
Cost to spec.[26]
Attack range will likely remain the same; as it is driven by the weapon or skill itself.[27]"
honestly we won't be able to give real feedback until they come out with a combat reveal, but that seems like its on high priority right now
To what extent will the tab and action versions of a specific be balanced with each other?
To what extent can tab and action skills appear on the same skill bar? I would assume not at all.
To what extent can the same character have both tab skills and action skills, even if they can't use both in the same skill bar?
It seems to me that having two different versions of each skill will be a lot of work to balance, more than twice as much work.
I think I need to really beat my head against the Wiki, even though things will likely change dramatically before Launch.
I feel you. I'm extremely curious myself. There are a lot of questions about it, but if its about how realistic the application of a hybrid system is, I think its easily possible. It's more work, but it doesn't even mean double.
One ability can have two different states, each state having different variables for damage, cc, etc. So that means you don't have to have separate bars for the different modes. Some abilities are also probably more natural for tab targeting and will only have that for a mode. Same with action abilities.
I imagine you wouldn't even have to leave the crosshair mode to use tab targeting skills. Clicking tab while your crosshair is highlighting a mob could put them in a selected state to use those tab-only skills.
Maybe a vice versa type action, where using an action-only skill (like the mage beam ability) during tab mode forces your camera to look in the direction of your mob for a moment and you control it afterwards with ur normal right-click camera.
I'm 99% sure whatever they come up will be better. I just hope they stick to keeping hybrid mode because i feel that's a big pull for many people, and action combat is the hot new thing for mmo's.
Alright, Left Click Attacks lol. You know what I meant!
I think this would be hard to discuss, obviously using ranged auto attacks with "skill shots" (however you wanna phrase it) would need to have more damage if the skill ceiling to hit the Action Combat Auto Attack is much more difficult. Good thought process, I should have thought about that!
This is extremely worrying. Balancing combat is hard as it stands, but balancing tab-target and action versions of each skill on top of that will be a nightmare. If there's a hill Aoc could die on it'll be this one. Runescape 3 sure did with the arrival of EOC. Giving players the choice of tab-target or action will only wind up forcing people to use the more powerful version.
For example, if TT fireball always hits its target, then action combat fireball would have to do significantly more damage to make up for it. TT players will complain that their preferred style is weak, and action combat players will respond by telling them to git gud. Good luck finding a competitive guild as a TT player. Or, if TT is as strong as action, people will ignore action completely since aiming is an added liability and lowers the overall dps output.
Instead, make each skill either an auto-target or a skillshot/aoe circle. Then, among the subclasses, make some of them auto-target heavy and others action combat heavy. Action combat classes will have a much higher skill cap due to unreliability, but will also have higher damage potentials. People who suck at combat will have simpler classes to main, and people who want to devote endless hours to perfecting a high-skill class can do so as well. Such a compromise is used by the leading PvP games on the market (ie LoL). Balancing individual, static subclasses can be done more reliably than each class and its alternate toggled form. There's a trillion subclasses in AoC. Differentiating one archer from another with skill variability will make each more unique.
That way the reticle is baked into the weapons that need it and the clutter isn’t there for abilities that don’t.
Heal/Support/Buff abilities that are single target be tab.
Let tab be a simple track / highlight system.
That was not the final version of the combat, of course it didn't feel good.
We are aware, its been mentioned here numerous times. No need to be snarky.