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[Combat Suggestion] A potential way to incorporate the style Steven had mentioned so many times.

CyanideCyanide Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Hey all, I'll keep this brief. I played the A1 over the summer pretty heavy and messed around a lot with tab target and the action combat. Unfortunately, to me, the tab target just felt so much better than the action. Why aim a spell when tabbing to the monster does the exact same thing? I believe I may have a unique idea/solution for this that may fit what you are looking for.

Go "Tab target focused" for combat, but have X amount of spells be "high reward skill shots". This would give you the opportunity to have the smooth combat of tab targeting, but gripping moments where you are going to need to aim and hit that important spell. (Maybe some type of over the shoulder Zoom in? AoE ground targeting would not be considered a "skill shot", but i guess it could be argued it is.)

So the break down would be like this:
-Action Combat Auto Attacks
-90% tab target spells
-classes having 1-2 "Action combat" spells (Big reward for landing, big feels bad if you miss.)


I think this would be a really nice implementation and set the "hybrid style" you guys are looking for. Let me know your ideas!

Comments

  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    What you have described isn't hybrid according to any of the ways hybrid is done. This is basically just Tab + or Tab Enhanced combat with an action filler attack.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • CyanideCyanide Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yeah but I feel like its the only way to implement anything close to a hybrid style, because the hybrid concept on A1 did not feel good, just forced everyone to tab target.
  • We probably won't get to dissect this much until A2, seeing as A1 want really meant to be a combat testing phase ...

    But...
    I've been curious how this is doing to work out with ranged auto attacks too. Will they be action or tab? If they are action, will they hit scan or be projectiles? Will different weapons have different missile speeds to make them more difficult to dodge? Would you effectively make people want to control their character more like a FPS at this point? Or will it be tab target and just auto hit? If that's the case wouldn't they be 'easier' to play than the action combat counterparts?


    If we go by your proposal
    Cyanide wrote: »
    ...
    So the break down would be like this:
    -Action Combat Auto Attacks
    -90% tab target spells
    -classes having 1-2 "Action combat" spells (Big reward for landing, big feels bad if you miss.)


    I think this would be a really nice implementation and set the "hybrid style" you guys are looking for. Let me know your ideas!

    As a mage or ranger would the auto attacks really ever be worth it if they are objectively more difficult to land hits with?
  • AlacriteAlacrite Member
    A1 combat was not a close representation to their plans unfortunately.

    Copied from the wiki:
    "Action oriented and tab oriented versions of skills will have different characteristics. Variables will change based on which version is chosen.[25]

    Damage.[25]
    Charge up time.[25]
    CC effects.[25]
    Cooldown.[26]
    Energy consumption.[26]
    Cost to spec.[26]
    Attack range will likely remain the same; as it is driven by the weapon or skill itself.[27]"

    honestly we won't be able to give real feedback until they come out with a combat reveal, but that seems like its on high priority right now
  • AlacriteAlacrite Member
    inb4 tab target cc being broken in pvp
  • BalanzBalanz Member
    edited May 13
    Alacrite wrote:
    Copied from the wiki:
    "Action oriented and tab oriented versions of skills will have different characteristics. Variables will change based on which version is chosen.[25]
    That has profound implications.

    To what extent will the tab and action versions of a specific be balanced with each other?
    To what extent can tab and action skills appear on the same skill bar? I would assume not at all.
    To what extent can the same character have both tab skills and action skills, even if they can't use both in the same skill bar?

    It seems to me that having two different versions of each skill will be a lot of work to balance, more than twice as much work.

    I think I need to really beat my head against the Wiki, even though things will likely change dramatically before Launch.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ashes doesn't have auto-attacks.
  • AlacriteAlacrite Member
    Balanz wrote: »
    That has profound implications.

    To what extent will the tab and action versions of a specific be balanced with each other?
    To what extent can tab and action skills appear on the same skill bar? I would assume not at all.
    To what extent can the same character have both tab skills and action skills, even if they can't use both in the same skill bar?

    It seems to me that having two different versions of each skill will be a lot of work to balance, more than twice as much work.

    I think I need to really beat my head against the Wiki, even though things will likely change dramatically before Launch.

    I feel you. I'm extremely curious myself. There are a lot of questions about it, but if its about how realistic the application of a hybrid system is, I think its easily possible. It's more work, but it doesn't even mean double.

    One ability can have two different states, each state having different variables for damage, cc, etc. So that means you don't have to have separate bars for the different modes. Some abilities are also probably more natural for tab targeting and will only have that for a mode. Same with action abilities.

    I imagine you wouldn't even have to leave the crosshair mode to use tab targeting skills. Clicking tab while your crosshair is highlighting a mob could put them in a selected state to use those tab-only skills.

    Maybe a vice versa type action, where using an action-only skill (like the mage beam ability) during tab mode forces your camera to look in the direction of your mob for a moment and you control it afterwards with ur normal right-click camera.

    I'm 99% sure whatever they come up will be better. I just hope they stick to keeping hybrid mode because i feel that's a big pull for many people, and action combat is the hot new thing for mmo's.
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