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Mutual protection in Convoys
Halae
Member
For those who don't know, a convoy is defined as "a group of ships or vehicles traveling together, typically accompanied by armed troops, warships, or other vehicles for protection." The reason I bring this up is fairly simple; nobody seems to talk about the concept of multiple caravans traveling together for mutual protection.
I can see some immediate benefits to caravans working together. They'd be capable of pooling resources to hire long-distance guards to protect the convoy, which guarantees large payouts for defenders without putting any extra pressure on the caravan masters themselves. I could even see agreements being made between guilds of traders and mercenary guilds for a protection pact sort of thing. The way this'd affect bandits is interesting as well, as it'd necessarily mean they have to focus on lone caravans or stragglers from a larger convoy that's fallen out of the protective blanket of the guards. The one exception is if you've got a large enough organization of bandits for hitting large convoys in a massive pile of violence, though part of me expects that to be more difficult to organize.
The especially fun part of this concept, to me, is how it incentivizes organization and planning, something that can be used against you in exactly the kind of subterfuge and espionage system the game is looking to encourage.
What do you think?
I can see some immediate benefits to caravans working together. They'd be capable of pooling resources to hire long-distance guards to protect the convoy, which guarantees large payouts for defenders without putting any extra pressure on the caravan masters themselves. I could even see agreements being made between guilds of traders and mercenary guilds for a protection pact sort of thing. The way this'd affect bandits is interesting as well, as it'd necessarily mean they have to focus on lone caravans or stragglers from a larger convoy that's fallen out of the protective blanket of the guards. The one exception is if you've got a large enough organization of bandits for hitting large convoys in a massive pile of violence, though part of me expects that to be more difficult to organize.
The especially fun part of this concept, to me, is how it incentivizes organization and planning, something that can be used against you in exactly the kind of subterfuge and espionage system the game is looking to encourage.
What do you think?
5
Comments
When you approach a caravan in game, you are given the option to attack, defend or ignore. If there are multiple caravans, you presumably have the option for each caravan.
If you pick attack or defend, and someone else picks the other option, you are no longer subject to corruption for killing each other.
However, if there are two caravans together, if I opt to defend one and not the other, and you opt to attack the one that I ignore and ignore the one that I opt to attack, we are subject to corruption if we fight each other.
We do not even know if there is the option to be able to be listed as a defender of multiple caravans at once.
Now, there may be the option of joining multiple caravans in to a convoy, so players pick to attack or defend the entire convoy. However, there has been no mention of this at all from Intrepid as yet, and so is likely not something they have even considered.
Personally, rather than asking us what we think (players will do this if the game makes it worthwhile), I think it may be worth asking Intrepid if they have plans around joining caravans together, or if players are able to be listed as defenders (or attackers) of multiple caravans at the same time in order to make convoys viable.
Now, all that said, it is personal choice where you attack the convoy and how you attack the convoy. My input was not to limit options but to show that a convoy concept would be possible. Limitations would apply.
As I said, at present, there is no such notion in the game. In order for convoys to be viable, Intrepid would need to implement a system where multiple caravans act as a single convoy.
It isn't the hardest thing in the world to do, it's just that so far there has been no mention at all of it. Intrepid may even have reasons for not wanting convoys at all - and as I said, asking them what their plans are around this is probably a better idea than asking players what we want to do in relation to a system we have no knowledge about at all.
We could talk about the potential of adding a convoy system, and how we would like to see it, but we can't really talk about what we would do in the game as it stands right now, because there is too much unknown around it just now.
There is no convoy level, level had multiple meanings in terms of scalability. I merely meant you can create a system in an old engine and ramp up the function in the new engine. Then when all is tested and balanced, you can boost graphics to maximum stability at the top end.
The thread relates to two scale levels: solo and convoy. I know convoy does not exist in a solid form but if you think you will be able to see a guild convoy and only engage one set of defenders at a time I don't know what to tell you.
I'd rather not have all of these conceptual rails.
Cheers,
Neurath.
However, what I don't know is if we will need to select attack, defend or ignore for each individual caravan, or if we select attack, defend or ignore for all caravans in a general location. Without a dedicated caravan system, these are the only two viable options.
The first of these is obviously not an ideal thing for people that are just out farming to have to deal with. Multiple popups like that always suck.
The second leaves the system wide open to leachers just running a caravan near someone else that is stronger than they are, that they know is going in the same direction they are going. Any would be attacker would need to attack both caravans in order to attack said leacher. This second system also doesn't account for when two caravans are near each other (accidently or on purpose) and a third party wants to only attack one but not the other.
While I agree with not being a big fan of rails in MMO's, some systems like this need to have the details sorted out.
Peace,
Neurath.
If caravans are distinct events, then it might be the case that multiple caravans cannot originate from the same place at the same time.
What I am curious about is how the issue of risk versus reward is handled. If the defenders of the caravan risk the cargo, and if they win, keep the cargo, the incentive seems to advantage the attackers, who risk only their "life," but could reap the caravan they did not invest in.
Will the game enforce any kind of numerical balance between the defenders and attackers?
How many times can a caravan be attacked? Unlimited for the duration of the route? Or is there some kind of limit.
If the attackers lose, can the same attackers respawn, chase down the caravan and try again? Or is that not possible.
Spawn locations are preset unless you build the raid for the right functions. My combat builds would offer utilities but of course, limitations will apply.
Much love,
Neurath.
System kind of sounds like a nightmare to design lol
2. Guilds can't attack guild mates unless through duels.
3. There are no limited attack windows. Preset spawn points are miles away.
4. Limitations to utilities will apply to caravan raids.
5. Naval combat will use a different approach because you can't resurrect a ship.
6. Anyone can join a caravan raid or naval raid.
Only if the gratitude or enmity of the sponsoring Guild or faction outweighs the immediate benefit of looting the caravan would it be more advantageous to defend the caravan.
The more potential attackers facing a caravan, the less the sponsor's gratitude or enmity matters to each potential attacker.
So as long as the number of potential attackers is sufficient, it will always be more advantageous to attack the caravan than to defend it.
I might invoke God of War Buff to attackers: 30 minute timer to defeat caravans. Automatic death and dispatch to preset spawn upon failure. (Times to be tested).
Cheers,
Neurath.
If you cancel the pop-up, you remain Green/Non-Combatant.
I don't thinkk there will be opposing Caravans in the same location.
A Convoy would be all the same faction, so, you can't really attack one Caravan in the Convoy and defend a different one.
A Convoy would be similar to choosing sides in a Siege. You would either be attacking the Convoy or defending the Convoy. Or not participating.
There is literally no way they can prevent this from happening.
Exactly, Steven said it is essentially a "faction war". You choose to be on the side of "Caravan Attacker" or "Caravan Defender", regardless of which (or how many) caravans it is. I don't think you'll get an option for each caravan, just a generic "Hey, you're in a caravan zone, do you want to join?" and if caravan zones overlap, then you'll be included in them all the same.
As for the benefits of a Convoy, it's definitely something that will benefit those who are organized enough to do so. Likewise, those looking to be Thieves will benefit for finding Convoys and focusing their efforts on taking down an entire Convoy rather than just one caravan. Assuming there is a 50/50 split of people who want to play Attackers & Defenders, then engaging in a Convoy doesn't necessarily mean you'll outnumber the attackers, it just means the attackers will have to coordinate in a similar fashion to all attack together in order to match the Convoy's numbers.
2) Hire a few dummy wagons with no valuables inside.
3) Form a convoy.
4) If attacked, the dummy wagons slow down to draw the bandits, the one(s) with the real good speed away!
5) Bandits loot twigs and pebbles.
6) Profit?
There will be caravans starting in Nodes and also from Freeholds (personal caravans). The Mayors of nodes may well coordinate together and freehold owners may join in. If letters represent nodes and numbers represent freeholds, then....
1 3 5 7 9
A ----> B
> C
> D
2 4 6 8
1 and 2 can go to A, join the A caravan which travels to B and picks up B, 3, 4, 5 and all together go to C, picking up 7, 8, 9, & C and together they all travel to the destination node D, protecting each other.
The advantage is much stronger defensive strength, as the OP mentioned. One disadvantage is that the more people who know about it, the more likely that the plans will be leaked.
Of course, fake plans might be leaked, perhaps saying that the caravan leaves at 1 PM while it really leaves at 9 AM. All of which makes the game more fun.
EDIT formatting didn't work as I hoped, I hope it makes sense from the description.
- Caravans do take components to craft, so even dummy wagons have a cost. We don't know how much yet, but I'd assume it's not dirt cheap, or else nobody will be bothered to craft the components.
- Because of that it's likely not worth it to have dummies unless you're transporting something very very very valuable, like a truck full of enchanted mithril & ancient dragon scales etc.
- And because of that, a convoy of caravans basically becomes a big flashy sign yelling "Hello valuables here"
- And therefore any sensible bandits who spot the convoy would likely immediately ping their bandit guild in slack / discord, quietly follow the caravan, guess its path / destination, setup a sizable ambush, and profit.
btw I'm also wondering what would happen if multiple caravans cluster together though.
Do we get a one attack/defend popup for each caravan when we go near them? (hence cluttering the UI and also increase the risk of mis-clicking)
Do they automatically get grouped somehow (one attack/defend window for all caravans within range)?
But what if those caravans happen to be from different parties who're unfriendly towards each other?
Example 1 - I happen to have scheduled a caravan on the same path at the same time with my competitor / rival, transporting materials from the nearby economic node to my home science node for crafting. I have hired mercs players to help defend my caravan, and we run into bandit players. I'd definitely want my mercs to defend my wagon while ignoring my competitor's, or even bargain with / misdirect the bandits to trash it.
Example 2 - I know that a rich guild have scheduled a high value caravan, and have hired mercs to protect it. I also happen to need to send a caravan to the same destination, so I schedule a caravan at the same time on the same path to get a free ride of the mercs. Would the guild / mercs have a way to deny me of free protection?
... Or may be caravan senders / drivers can form parties and manually group their caravans?
But, we'd also expect there to be a great deal of defenders for a Convoy - especially, NPC defenders.
Convoy confirmed?