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Let’s Talk Enchanting!

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Comments

  • ThecatslockThecatslock Member, Alpha Two
    My ideal enchanting system is one that has no RNG. The weapon drop or the enchant schematic drop is the only acceptable RNG because it was already rolled for once to obtain. Instead of breaking or making the weapon useless how about you make the enchanting system depend on disenchanting items of varrying rarity to obtain specific enchant items(scrolls) and allow enchanters to keep an enchant log book.

    Those enchants instead of RNG can instead have an application timer. When the timer ends you can contact your local rare enchant hunter to reapply the enchant. This becomes a modest gold and material sink and allows players to keep the gear they worked for but asks for a small upkeep.

    Example: I have a green lvl 1 sword with no enchant, but I have gear or crystals from mining/monster drops I can't use because I chose mining/ect

    -> I go to a lvl 1 enchanter and the base fee to enchant lvl 1 green sword is 4 silver, 2 pretty gems and 1 spectral dust (obtained from gear of equal level or lower).

    -> a menu at the stall opens up with insert slots. one for the weapon to be enchanted and the second box shows me the required materials where i can place the stones and gear equal to the item lvl i wish to enchant.

    -> 4 silver is the base cost + the town taxes (100% lol) and then the enchanters service fee based on the enchants colored rarity or obtainment difficulty (lets say blue).

    -> The buyer pays 4s+4s+10s (asking price) = 18 silver total + 2 pretty gems and 1 green armor/weapon/ or buys the dust that was already made and the seller receives the money and experiance from the enchantment to learn better spells/enchants or unlocks awesome spell enchant effects in the log book

    -> The buyer receives a weapon that went from green to blue rarity with (insert buff) that fades after insert days(timer based on enchant and rarity). The materials should come from every tier as the enchants become harder so materials dont lose relevance. Green to blue is 2 pretty gems and 1 item/dust, but Blue to Purple is 3 shiny stones + 5 pretty gems + 6 dust.

    This system encourages players to go out in the field for farming matts or gear to be turned into dust if they dont want to buy/sell those things, it keeps old gear and matts relevent at all stages of nodes/higher player levels, it encourages players to interact with guild members or advertizing enchanters, it lets players keep their favorite gear only needing to repair for damages over time/reapply enchants, and the higher leveled enchants can remain available for planned sieges/enchanter bragging rights for harder to obtain enchants(cosmetics like blue flames and stuff). New enchanters will still be able to level up and disenchanting gear they find (based on current level) with already baked in enchants could be collected into the logbook. The game designers can determine where they want specific enchanted items or scrolls to drop and at what level while controlling what level enchanters can disenchant or use said enchants.This means that guilds of all player levels can farm areas and store/caravan those matts to diffrent nodes in preperation and enchanters will remain relevent every week reapplying enchants to their fellow siege enthusiests/warlords/lowbie friends.
  • Все хорошо, только чтоб предмет не ломался до полного исчезновения, а просто падал в грейде до изначального состояния + терял прочность и нормально будет - ломался до невозможности использования и его нужно было чинить перед использованием! 👍
  • oneuproadoneuproad Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    I feel like overenchantment is meant only for pushing the peak of character progress. You can get you BiS, you can get additional effects on its attack/defense functions, but if you want to go up in power - you gotta risk smth. Just putting more resources into the weapon is not a risk, it's an assured way up through time.

    Imo enchantments for vertical progression of gear should be ultra rare. Someone over enchanting a weapon should be a damn event for the server. That one person will get 1-3% boost in power, but their reputation will be that of "someone at the peak of their progress". The whole guild should work for that kind of thing. And by the time that player gets to a chance to destroy their BiS weapon in an overenchant - they should already have a backup. And if they decide to risk a unique legendary - that'd be a great way for it to "change hands". But if they succeed to OE that legendary - they deserve the powerup, because their risk was gigantic.

    You can't be a gambler if you don't have the means to gamble. But you can take risks when the opportunity presents itself.

    You seem to be forgetting that this is designed for the top maybe 0.1% of playerbase if not less at least "ideally", which makes no sense to put so much effort into. And then even inside those 0.1% of playerbase you will find people not wanting to deal with RNG, they rather grind 16 hours a day for 1 month for 1 success.

    Steven knows full well that you need appeal to the mass first to keep the game going. You talk about L2, but L2 was going downhill once you could not put in the hours anymore and then you got slapped by the enhancing system as well and you just got completely stuck and since the game did not have as much to offer it just faded away, though it put down fundamentals for the genre that is undeniable.

    I have played Korean MMOs the past 16 years, item destruction/RNG is not fun, it is just an utterly bad design and you will never find a reasonable argument to say item destruction is needed, gambling is a damaging action.

    There needs to be a system that guarantees vertical improvement over-time, does not matter if there is an "end", just make that journey long enough, and once you are at end or even during the journey keep a maintenance cost at it. Say you have this Fire Dragon Sword that was made from a world boss drop, and to repair this weapon you need the same item you crafted it with and the additional trash sink, that makes the repair possibilities very finite. That is just one to keep you occupied to keep your "best" gear relevant.

    There is a vast amount of knowledge at our hand now unlike back at L2's prime, you can watch podcast of people who have studied a lot more and understand human behaviour a lot more than you do and they will tell you why gambling is bad for humans. Stop living in the past, you should build on it not live in it.

    P.S.: I have just read only the 1st page of the thread. Lmao

    In short, no to gambling, yes to effort.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I just don't see the point in enchantments for vertical progression. An enchantment is like a constant buff. We can move away from the concept and make enchantments cosmetic only.

    Usually you build the classes first, then the stat library, then the weapons/armour, then the mobs, then the bosses. Scenic Creation occurs from inception due to world build time.

    The perfect point is to revamp the system one way or another now in order to build the solid base and progress.

    I would simulate my classes, throw a siege game mode together and test the concepts without enchantments. Most likely PI, A1 or A2 testers for some war weekens and only select classes.

    That way a2 can come very swift and no one is kept in the dark.
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  • LerithielLerithiel Member, Alpha Two
    I am no fan of rng but if the materials are hard to get. (hard grinding) it will be oké for my. The buffs what i like to see:

    * More Damage on Monsters
    * Reduce penalty time ability's and death
    * To make special set armour for yourself
    * Unlock special ability

    This is my way of thinking.
  • KomilerKomiler Member
    I do not really prefer enchantment system any other. As for me destracting item when enchanting is worst thing what ever can be. Maybe little chance for sucsessfull enchant isn't bad. I personally prefer horizontal progresss for enchantment, rather then vertical. My favorite enchant system is ESO system (encant+quality+traits) it gives fair vertical progress and good horizantal.
  • oneuproadoneuproad Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2022
    So after reading all these comments...

    In the long I really do not care if enhancment gives vertical or horizontal or whatever progression the people name here. Just do not bring item destruction or delevelling into the picture. There are absolutely many ways around it to make it more satisfying, and rewarding.

    People are worried about crafters becoming useless, when the market becomes too abundant. I hope item repair will require identical item/crafting material as well, identical item sounds more appealing to me at least with the additional trash material sink. Then also those legendary rare drops would have a much bigger weight behind them as their repair is limited. Say you only use it at a node defence that would risk you losing your boss spawn for possible repairs or other important events where you want to make the difference.

    AoC just has so many directions and so much knowledge/experience of the past at hand, surely they will find a way to create something appealing to the mass in this regard.

    What I have thought about after reading all these comments, that having no "vertical" progression on enhancing is not a bad idea. Say enhancing is only buffing your main stats, then there is no "identity" to you, everyone is the same +15 gear, etc.

    Now if enhancing gave you more horizontal progression, where you can play with your creativity. Say player 1 +15 faces another +15 person, but player 1 has absolute advantage because of his horizontal stat allocation. There is diversity and many possible outcomes that keeps the game from a stale situation. Now obviously this system is just going to be flawed the moment a meta is found/created accidentally. Only vertical progression sounds like an invitation to zerg-meta at the end of the day.

    My other concept after so many years of MMORPGs, which is a personal wish... Please do not overtune damage, hence again why horizontal progression sounds more appealing. Literally every game I have played offensive stats just so vastly outscaled defensive stats it was crazy, everything becoming this 1 shot fiesta where it is less and less about skill, or thoughtful you name it.

    ArcheAge was probably one of the best examples when you were getting into the really high gear areas with every consuambles at hand. (Or let's not even talk about early ArcheAge before the 2.0 HP buff and stat rework)

    If you stick to anykind of over-enhancing, this path should give you very-very minimal advantage as it is RNG-gated. It was just so frustrating to see in those games (AA, BDO, Aion, L2) when someone just became a demi-god because of having a lucky a day.

    I'll repeat again just like in previous post. No to gambling, yes to effort.
  • HandOfUnityHandOfUnity Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Keep the RNG out of any profession as much as possible, those are our two cents. RNG has ruined games like BDO and ArcheAge for many of our guildees.
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  • edited May 2022
    Its interesting to see people mentioning BDO and AA RNG enchanting systems killing/ruining their respective games as if it was their ultimate executioner, while in reality it was mainly their P2W cash shop intertangled with the enchanting system literally selling power. :D
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    Aren't we all sinners?
  • DownloadDownload Member, Alpha Two
    Things must break or get lost over time or there will be no economy . Crafting and enchanting will benefit from this greatly. If you follow this principle the economy, crafting and enchanting
    will be the greatest of any game. Make categories but make several items available for that categories. Exploration will grow and enchanting g and crafting will flourish. Please let put name on items. It will help professions. Just a side note next to item name






  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2022
    Its interesting to see people mentioning BDO and AA RNG enchanting systems killing/ruining their respective games as if it was their ultimate executioner, while in reality it was mainly their P2W cash shop intertangled with the enchanting system literally selling power. :D

    If you want to sell power do long legendary solo quest lines and sell the power for blood.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    If +15 is the max, +3 should be safe +4 should be common, + 5, +6, +7 should be possible, +8 to + 12 should be awsome.
    +15 should be famous.

    If everybody can get to +10 +15, then why even bother with a system. It's basically gearscore crap.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The reason behind 10 to 15 is the 5 tier rank system which would constitute 5 pvp armour tiers and 5 pve raid tiers amalgamated into a pvx format and condensed into the base.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    The reason behind 10 to 15 is the 5 tier rank system which would constitute 5 pvp armour tiers and 5 pve raid tiers amalgamated into a pvx format and condensed into the base.

    ?
  • LithionLithion Member, Alpha Two
    Please forgive me if this is a stupid question or if it has been answered in this thread already, I've only read one page so far and haven't seen it addressed.

    Do we know if enchanting is a profession? I read the wiki and didn't notice any mention if it was a crafting profession or something anyone can do with no artisan skills at all? I hope that it is a crafting profession and there will be master enchanters who are well known on the server for enchanting the best enchantments just like how master crafters and gatherers will be known on the server for making some of the best gear.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, I know. The ideation was that power should come from risk/reward. I figured legendary loot will drop the maximum base allowed. Then I remembered crafted legendaries are equal to legendary loot drops.

    Anyway, I would rather have high base stats, more risk/reward and guaranteed results for effort. I doubt raids would like rng on whether the raid was cleared or not.
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  • LyonLyon Member
    I am absolutely against items breaking and disappearing completely and enchanting should have fixed stats and no rng
  • edited May 2022
    oneuproad wrote: »
    Steven knows full well that you need appeal to the mass first to keep the game going. You talk about L2, but L2 was going downhill once you could not put in the hours anymore and then you got slapped by the enhancing system as well and you just got completely stuck and since the game did not have as much to offer it just faded away, though it put down fundamentals for the genre that is undeniable.

    L2 only started going downhill in numbers around 2008, around the time WoW WOTLK expansion and the Release of AION, same year NCsoft created NCwest and along side with NCSoft, NCwest introduced the cash shop in the game.

    Aren't you putting a bit of bias assuming enhancing system to be L2's "downhill motivator"?...

    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lithion wrote: »
    Please forgive me if this is a stupid question or if it has been answered in this thread already, I've only read one page so far and haven't seen it addressed.

    Do we know if enchanting is a profession? I read the wiki and didn't notice any mention if it was a crafting profession or something anyone can do with no artisan skills at all? I hope that it is a crafting profession and there will be master enchanters who are well known on the server for enchanting the best enchantments just like how master crafters and gatherers will be known on the server for making some of the best gear.
    It's an Artisan Skill. There will be Master Enchanters.
    I think we don't know for sure if it falls under Processing or Crafting?

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Enchanter is a combat class related to summoner. If they summon weapons, enchant weapons and dispatch weapons via air like amazon I will be both impressed and dismayed.
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  • LithionLithion Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's an Artisan Skill. There will be Master Enchanters.
    I think we don't know for sure if it falls under Processing or Crafting?
    Awesome TY for the confirmation! Is there any reason why its not in the enchanting wiki page or any of the artisan pages? I'm just worried because i haven't seen any dev confirmation on it, but i could have easily just missed where it was said. I assume it will be in crafting because it would be at the final stages of the gathering, processing, crafting pipeline. However i could see it falling under processing also like you said.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We don't know what the official name(s) will be for Artisans who Enchant items.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Okay thank you :)
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  • LithionLithion Member, Alpha Two
    Drunkninja wrote: »
    When it comes to this profession I also like to see Disenchanting as an option with resource gain or rather a transmutation of the object into something different.
    I would love this! Would be very cool to be able to disenchant and get materials, I would also love to be able to dismantle gear and weapons for materials too. It would make old weapons and gear not worthless junk you just sell for gold. If there was a way to melt it down to craft more new gear that would be very useful and fun for crafters or processors to buy up old junk from adventurers and melt it all down and make new stuff with it.
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  • HjalmberiHjalmberi Member, Alpha Two
    I would like enchantings similar to EVE Online riggings. You have some number of empty slots to use. Put in there some gems or smth to get extra bonuses to your stats. When you try to change the bonus, you brake those gems and put in new ones. Also some temporary blessings would be nice
  • NicoxNicox Member, Alpha Two
    I like enchantment that can bring small power not directly for combat. Like mount running faster or jumping higher for explorations and things like that.
  • ●What aspects of the Enchanting system are important to you?
    ~No destroying, because that's can be the reason of leaving people from the game,or full time of grind and all game will about grind for Enchanting.
    ●Are there Enchanting systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, what makes Enchanting in those games good?
    ~Aion , that was simple green and blue (+10max) , gold etc (+15), and if your Enchanting was fail -1 previous was destroyed too , etc ... and all stats was +
    ●Is there anything, in particular, you’re excited or concerned about regarding the Enchanting system?
    ~ it should be in the game , but you need to do something unique , for example
    Not sellable Enchanting material , that u can find in open world (from metal nodes for example with own special characteristics, glowing, or visual effects , from gathering of wood with other stats and bonuses and visual )
    The one of the most I concerned about is that you should see the changes of your own character .
  • JhorenJhoren Member
    I want to echo many others here and declare my extreme dislike/hate for any system like in those korean MMOs, where there is a chance of destroying or delevelling items. It's straight up bad game design, and causes people to quit. It might very well be a dealbreaker to me in Ashes. Make the process of getting the materials for the highest level enchants hard. Don't ruin people's precious time with RNG they have no control over. We could be talking about weeks of playtime down the drain because of an unlucky roll.

    I can accept a loss of enchanting materials for overenchanting. We don't need any more of a gold/material sink than that.

    And to also echo others on the power level point, please don't make vertical enchantment overpowered. Err on the side of underpowered. A max level enchanted item should only be a little more powerful than the unenchanted version. Just enough to make people do it for that extra small edge, but not to a point where it's necessary to stand a competitive chance.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm not sure what you mean by competitive chance. In any decent system you get the same amount of power for the equivalent upgrade. Therefore, balance can be at any defined point. The only question remains whether you want max power bought with gold or do you want max power bought with skill.
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  • SweatycupSweatycup Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2022
    What aspects of the Enchanting system are important to you?
    The option to not just modify a item but add story to it. As simply tinkering a item may include farming for resources and finding useful combination of components. The fact of having to perhaps exchange with other professions to complete the concoction leading to a more sociable profession.

    Are there Enchanting systems in other games that you feel are done well? If so, what makes Enchanting in those games good?
    Yes, ive enjoyed enchanting/tinkering*non-engineering WoW related. The added risk of not always getting the highest enchant even with max skill so when you do get that phenomanal enchant versis the boring it really feels like a accomplishment. I dislike the fixed enchant stats everytime depending on skill in most games. I think a chance of say poor, decent, modest, or great enchant should be instilled based off skill or scroll w/e. The best enchant should always be chance like a loot chance and not fully fixed on skill, ingridients or otherwise. Even the best person at a profession never hits perfect service all the time.

    Is there anything, in particular, you’re excited or concerned about regarding the Enchanting system?
    I would like to see more specialty weapons which might be done through enchants. I guess it would be nice to add in a pvp enchant to do more damage to either certain races beyond just going for using fire vs someone with frost armor. As well to maybe get rewards like how in some games there are crafting enchants. Why cant i use my pvp enchant to add a chance of magically getting a resource i want for crafting after killing someone?

    Edit: Also, please add more custom effects to enchants... with UE5 there is no reason a fire enchant shouldnt look like fire, water like water dripping or nature being leaves swirling around a blade. I think this aspect could be greatly expanded and improved from games ive played. Please dont take the easy way out, make em pretty and unique instead of boring glows.
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