PvP In Ashes

CROW3

Hah! Totally. 🤗 I’ve been much more prickly about one topic or another than I wish at times. That said, there’s only so many concerns we can stress about without more time getting our hands dirty.

You and I both see data as bedrock, and there’s limited sediment beneath our boots right now.

Dygz

Azherae wrote: »

This. I'm hoping Intrepid figures out something to make people WANT to try PvP, and want to learn it, from an enjoyment perspective, somehow, Or we're just going to keep seeing those same complaints all the time. Now, does that matter? Who knows. Maybe those people will all just not play, but I really hope they do something (my suggested method doesn't fit within Ashes very well so I too, am just waiting for Corruption tuning).

But in the end if you can't help people learn to LIKE actually being involved in PvP, I feel it'd be hard to sustain a game with such a freeform take on it.

You can't make people who don't enjoy eating fish eyes enjoy eating fish eyes.

Dygz

CROW3 wrote: »

To the topic at hand, people are going to die and lose a % of certificates, but you’ll earn it back. You will get ganked. And you can participate later in hunting down gankers. The folks who lose in a battle will win others. It’s fine. It makes the game world more interesting.

At this stage there is so much more to be tested than overly concerned about. Best thing is to hang out, participate in some threads, and if you can, sign up to test.

People who don't enjoy PvP are not going to want to hunt down gankers... and won't find that type of gameplay to be interesting.

SongRune

Dygz wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

This. I'm hoping Intrepid figures out something to make people WANT to try PvP, and want to learn it, from an enjoyment perspective, somehow, Or we're just going to keep seeing those same complaints all the time. Now, does that matter? Who knows. Maybe those people will all just not play, but I really hope they do something (my suggested method doesn't fit within Ashes very well so I too, am just waiting for Corruption tuning).

But in the end if you can't help people learn to LIKE actually being involved in PvP, I feel it'd be hard to sustain a game with such a freeform take on it.

You can't make people who don't enjoy eating fish eyes enjoy eating fish eyes.

Yeah, and you don't really want to. But you might be able to convince people who've had terribly cooked fish eyes try a well cooked version. And when you do, the ones that hate them will still hate them, and that's fine. But all the ones that only hate bad fish eyes will appreciate the second chance. Even if they didn't realize that a bad cook was their problem. As someone who thought they hated a lot of different (literal) foods, I really appreciate having been served those better versions.

Different people have different tastes, and that's fine. The important thing is to make sure people don't accidentally get tricked into ignoring things they like due to an unlucky bad first impression with a different chef. Whether that's other games, or other literal food.

Dygz

The vast majority will have experienced non-consensual PvP enough times to know they don't like it.
Has nothing to do with the bad design.

The devs are presenting their PvP design. People who play Ashes will have to try it. But, it will really be a matter of whether Corruption is successful in deterring non-consensual to a degree that is acceptable for players who hate non-consensual PvP.
There's a difference between tolerating rare encounters and enjoying it.

I expect to enjoy the objective-based PvP content, like Sieges and Caravans.
But, it's not possible to make direct PvP combat encounters interesting in any way for me to want to hunt down someone who ganked me.

Merek

SirChancelot wrote: »

Deathbreath wrote: »

I have no desire to ask for changes in a system I haven't seen in action yet.

That being said, I have zero faith in the open world pvp feeling good or balanced or even interesting. People don't want fair fights, they want to steamroll for easy loot.

I'm just hoping everything else about the game is good enough to make up for it. And if it isn't? Oh well. Just add it to the list of other games I don't play. Ain't the world of the world.

Hopefully the corruption system makes people pump the breaks on that steamroll for easy loot.
I'd like to see more corruption applied for the more one sided the fight was, not sure how that would be gauged though.

As someone who enjoys being a vulture in games, the way PVP works in this game completely disinterests me. I'd only kill people to make them hemorrhage resources if I don't like them or their organization, outside of that, resources are honestly not enough of an incentive for me to dance with the corruption system.

Shilee

Dygz wrote: »

The vast majority will have experienced non-consensual PvP enough times to know they don't like it.
Has nothing to do with the bad design.

The devs are presenting their PvP design. People who play Ashes will have to try it. But, it will really be a matter of whether Corruption is successful in deterring non-consensual to a degree that is acceptable for players who hate non-consensual PvP.
There's a difference between tolerating rare encounters and enjoying it.

I expect to enjoy the objective-based PvP content, like Sieges and Caravans.
But, it's not possible to make direct PvP combat encounters interesting in any way for me to want to hunt down someone who ganked me.

Do you mind letting me know how caravans seem fun to you but open world pvp won't? Cause in my mind then only thing that happens is you have MORE to lose during a caravan attack, it's still nonconsensual, and the attackers won't gain corruption. It is literally just open world pvp with lower risk and higher reward

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

You can't make people who don't enjoy eating fish eyes enjoy eating fish eyes.

Sure you can.

In my days working with food, I turned a LOT of people on to foods they thought they didn't enjoy at all. Brussel sprouts and mushrooms being the most common, but I convinced people to try chickens feet, and indeed fish eyes.

It just so happens that fish eyes are a delicacy in Sri Lanka, among other places, and are actually incredibly good if prepared well. People that do not like them (or say they do not like them) generally fall in to three categories - they have never tried them at all, or don't like either the look, or the texture (not liking the texture applies to about 90% of food that people dislike).

Fish eyes happen to have an overly strong umami flavor, prepare them in a way to minimize the things they don't like about them, but maximize the things others do like about them, and you will have people absolutely loving your fish eyes.

I do find it a little odd that you happened to stumble on to a thing that I have literally done as your example of a thing that you can't do.

Dygz

Caravans are objective-based PvP -and- I actively choose to participate in that or not:

Steven 😇: The caravan has a proximity zone around it that prompts players with an interface asking if they wish to, attack, defend or ignore the caravan. There is no flagging involved. It is a temporary faction based battleground. Factions being the caravans defenders and attackers

I can choose to ignore the participation prompt. So... that is consensual PvP, if I choose to participate.

Mag7spy

Merek wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Deathbreath wrote: »

I have no desire to ask for changes in a system I haven't seen in action yet.

That being said, I have zero faith in the open world pvp feeling good or balanced or even interesting. People don't want fair fights, they want to steamroll for easy loot.

I'm just hoping everything else about the game is good enough to make up for it. And if it isn't? Oh well. Just add it to the list of other games I don't play. Ain't the world of the world.

Hopefully the corruption system makes people pump the breaks on that steamroll for easy loot.
I'd like to see more corruption applied for the more one sided the fight was, not sure how that would be gauged though.

As someone who enjoys being a vulture in games, the way PVP works in this game completely disinterests me. I'd only kill people to make them hemorrhage resources if I don't like them or their organization, outside of that, resources are honestly not enough of an incentive for me to dance with the corruption system.

That is how it was designed, its not meant to gank tons of people it has to be a conscious decision. I'd like to have a buffer so i can attack whoever I want, but will just have to dec a guild and settle it like that.

Dygz

Those regions where Corruption does not apply are called "battlegrounds" - during Caravan attacks and Sieges.

Dolyem