Summoners summons and AI

I was wondering how advanced the summons AI will be. Could it be possible to set summons to do stuff so that summoner can just relax while minions do all the work?
And more important will i be able to interact with summons? Will i be able to befriend it or will they just be souless machines of destruction?

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Dygz

Yes.
Just Summon some minions, then Netflix and chill.

Azherae

Dremora wrote: »

I was wondering how advanced the summons AI will be. Could it be possible to set summons to do stuff so that summoner can just relax while minions do all the work?
And more important will i be able to interact with summons? Will i be able to befriend it or will they just be souless machines of destruction?

We do not know yet, but whenever Summoners become available, you can give Intrepid your feedback.

I also tend to compile things in case they are interested in using that, but I can't compile your wishes because being very precise is required and your post does not state your own desire, it only implies it.

Do you WANT to 'just relax while the minions do all the work'?

JustVine

Dremora wrote: »

I was wondering how advanced the summons AI will be. Could it be possible to set summons to do stuff so that summoner can just relax while minions do all the work?
And more important will i be able to interact with summons? Will i be able to befriend it or will they just be souless machines of destruction?

This is actually something we don't really know yet unfortunately. Any other answer is just speculation at this point. That being said I am confident enough from playing Alpha 1 and keeping track of their design philosophy to say a few things.

Speculation:

So far we know that you will be able to customize your summons quite a bit in appearance.

The other cool thing about the you know summoner that we want to implement is kind of a summon creation suite where you can customize the appearance potentially based on what you found in the world. Something that's already going to be implemented with the animal husbandry system; and there's no reason why we can't take that technology- that you know system and apply it elsewhere such as with the Summoner.[1] – Steven Sharif

Given this quote and the fact that there are a LOT of summons for different classes of summoner that are also based on mobs(see the wiki page for more info) I have a feeling that most of the default summons will be MOB based. I therefore also think that the mob ai is going to heavily effect the outcome of how 'smart' summons are even if the Summons have additional systems to give you control over their actions. I would therefore encourage my fellow summoners to keep an eye out on their mob ai designs and their general decision making.

Because there will be some cross over from animal husbandry I think that the infrastructure for some animations where you interact with your summon are very possible but I would not count on it. Maybe you should ask about that for this month's Q&A https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/52653/next-livestream-q-a-submission-thursday-june-30-2022-at-11am-pacific

The final piece of evidence I'll give you for my speculative answers to your questions is this quote:

For example: If your summon had a sweeping attack with a claw, or had the ability to bite an opponent, or rush an opponent; and you took teleportation, you could rush them similar to how I've given an example with the tank: Teleporting to a target instead. Or, its claws could combust on impact on a target dealing some burn damage that persists. Or... let's say your summon traditionally was some type of bear or bear cat, you could apply an elemental augment and now it could be a transparent flaming bioluminescent cat; and its damage would be fire based. So, that's how we want to influence the active skills with how augments apply; and that's how it would apply with Summoners.[2] – Steven Sharif

Now obviously we don't know if there is some preset directives you can set relative to ability use on your summons like you are asking about. But as you can see Steven has at least done a little thinking about the 'active' abilities a summon can have[3] and they are definitely abilities you need to activate as a summoner personally.

There were definitely enemies in Alpha 1 I could just hold Q and not worry that much about the combat relative to active abilities[4]. But I expect that the higher level the mobs the more complex the fights will be, both to prevent botting, and just the over all design direction Alpha 1 has shown us relative to their encounter design. I therefore speculate you will need to use your unique active skills to be used against a large amount of enemies and you cannot therefore 'sit back and relax' in most cases, even if there turns out to be some sort of ai presets we can give the summon that is revealed to us in the future.

Sources:
All of these quotes are sourced from the wiki page directly however below in spoiler tags I have linked each of the youtube clips directly. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Summoner
[1]

https://youtu.be/O1KhYxEKdgA?t=1h26m09s

[2]

https://youtu.be/JH-sX1aFljM?t=24m11s

[3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUJugtqTBxw&t=606s

[4] This is based directly off my Alpha1 experience only, obviously future iterations of the game may change that.

Ael

Otr wrote: »

On a more serious note... I would like the summons to comment ironically about my skills when I die and hint that they might look for a new master.

I'm totally into it, it would be so funny

--

About the AI / control of summons, I was wondering... when a mob/boss/player uses an ability that can be avoided by jumping at the correct time (such a thing has been casted in an old video if I'm correct), how would the summon(s) be able to react ?
- No reaction at all ?
- The player could actively order the summon(s) to jump ?
- The summon(s) would/could mimic the summoner when he's jumping ?
- The summon would automatically avoid some of these attacks ? (could be enhanced through the use of skills points ?)

JustVine

Ael wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

On a more serious note... I would like the summons to comment ironically about my skills when I die and hint that they might look for a new master.

I'm totally into it, it would be so funny

--

About the IA / control of summons, I was wondering... when a mob/boss/player use an ability that can be avoided by jumping at the correct time (such a thing has been casted in an old video if I'm correct), how would the summon(s) be able to react ?
- No reaction at all ?
- The player could actively order the summon(s) to jump ?
- The summon(s) would/could mimic the summoner when he's jumping ?
- The summon would automatically avoid some of these attacks ? (could be enhanced through the use of skills points ?)

That is an excellent question that I doubt we will have an answer to until Alpha2 even starts. They plan on delaying summoner's release and concept definitions until very late in the development process due to how many prerequisites in systems design the class has to create. Once combat and augments are more finalized and fleshed out in terms of 'how should these things work' maybe we will get further details then.

Unfortunately until they give us some idea of what the actual control scheme will be for pet's, it's impossible to know. There are just so MANY ways to build summoner, and most of them are quite frankly bad or unbalanced. I have my own preferences for how it should handle, but I doubt most summoners will agree on any given control scheme so I'll avoid saying my preference on this specific aspect until we have more information (or I'm asked directly by others, but again I prefer not stating my opinion on this topic since it can easily derail basically any conversation without more solid info on how combat will work in Ashes.)

JamesSunderland

Interesting topic, we really have no clue how intrepid will approach summons in terms of AI, if we take in consideration Lineage 2 and Archeage summons we might get some clues.

According to the wiki:
Abilities from the summon appear on the summoner's hotbar.[1]
Summoner has control over their summon.[1]
Summons can be leveled through the application of skill points to their active skill
You gain your summons from your summoner class as an active skill and then skills can be further developed with points.[7]

Those principles perfectly encapsulate how summons worked in Lineage 2, the summoner had total control over the summon actions

The question becomes does the summons in Ashes do anything by themselves without the owners direct action?

Archeage only had a single summon(Fiend's Knell), that the witchcraft tree user had no control over and tha had a simplistic set of AI rules:

it would always attack the nearest enemy to its summon location (8m radius),
It would attack whatever enemy comes near it,
it would attack whatever attacks it or the owner ,
It would attack whatever the owener attacks
It would use its skills in a scripted way: always used its aoe snare if the enemi wasn't within basic attack range but withing 8m, it would jump on targets over 8m away, and would always aoe slam targets within basic attack range every 3 basic attacks.

Archeage had battle pets, alot of them, basically universal summons for whatever class (but could have only one summoned at a time)(could have it summoned alongside your mount and Fiend's Knell tho):
They basically worked the same as Lineage 2 summons but you could make they use their skills on cooldown and they had Toggleable Stance scripts:

Combat Stance
Attacks whatever enemy comes near it or whatever attacks you or you attack.

Defensive Stance
Attacks whatever attacks you or you attack.

Follow Stance
Literally just follows you.

Stand Stance
Simple stands still in the place where you clicked the stance..

If you would ask me what approach do i think Ashes will have with summons i would say probably something similar to Archeage Battle pats, basically Lineage 2 summon with Stance scripts but no "automatic usage of skills on cooldown" as a base and maybe build their own ideas over that.

Marcet

I just hope that the Summoner/Tank can summon some kind of golems to off-tank the raid, obviously not as good as a main tank... but at least be a dmg sponge for packs of mobs. And I expect the leveling process to be slower than a whirlwind warrior, same for priest I would say, no problem with that.

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