Trading should be disabled just like in Black Desert Online. Cmon, hear me out!

Tex

Hey guys!
Follow me with this, think about it!
Many MMORPG failed because:
1. No content or just simply a bad game.
2. Pay to win from cash shop.
3. Gold selling.

I'm gonna tackle just the 3rd one, Gold selling in this post.


No one, literally no one can make a game 100% bot proof (auto farmer bots). No matter the system in place, there will always be someone smarter than them to get around the system.
The only way to stop them is to just disable trading between players and market prices are dynamically fixed (minimum and maximum price of a item) by an automated systems that takes into account the whole prices put by the players or just simply manually put them by the admins.

Black Desert online now survived just because this. Everything you have you your account is purely your work (or teamwork).
Archeage was a perfect game at it's roots, you had almost everything you wanted from a MMORPG and failed because of cash shop the first round and then because of the gold selling. One player could simply kill 10 players in one shot because of its P2W gear.

I know it takes allot of fun out of the game, I realize this but this is the only way that someone tested until now and it works.

Gold selling is an industry now, very profitable and there are huge sums of $$ to gain from it. They will ruin the industry if we let them.

Think about it, all the MMORPGs are doomed to fail because of the artificial player progression (gold selling or cash shop).


MMORPGs are games for hardcore players mostly, it takes time, guts and brains to be in the front. This is at the foundation of any MMORPG.

AOC has the chance to change the market and I hope it does.

I salute you!

Ludullu

Respectfully, no.

Mag7spy

BDO is dead, it has zombies playing it that are too deep in the game and no other mmorpg to play. If its not gold selling it will be another thing, just need to simply ban the offenders make it public and that solves the issue.

Azherae

Spider senses... tingling... someone is wrong on the internet!

Not only is this not true (I would love to give a massive dissertation on BDO's economy, but I will refrain unless someone brings the counterpoint), it also leads to multiple unnecessary meta-shakeups, poor inflation, bad power creep, balance that is just ridiculously stupid, and an amount of catchup mechanics the likes of which I have personally never seen anywhere else.

It is that bad.

BDO's economy is broken for many reasons, inability to trade between players is not even close to being one of them.

There's definitely an argument to be made here that all TRANSACTIONS need to go through a system that can be easily traced, but that's an argument for 'Escrow' and one or two other much less invasive systems.

If you would like, I can provide an entire timeline of patch notes of basically 'them battling their own systems and inflation because you can't rely on market rates'.

bloodprophet

Would this idea hamper the planed interconnectivity between the crafting specs?
If miners mine and cannot sell/trade the ore to some that can smelt in it to ingot's I think the whole interdependence of the crafting system and the community at large would suffer.

Jindrack

Player to player trading and commerce is a huge part of Ashes' economy and a major pillar of the game's design.

CROW3

No. Classic baby & bathwater.

Sylvanar

Wonder what is point of this post? You might as well ask them to change the PvP, corruption system and other core aspects alongside this considering trading a huge part of AoC with all the professions meticulously planned and deeply interlinked with each other.

Mag7spy

It's troll bait.

George_Black

This has been talked about before.
1) there will be moderation and bans
2) it will be a better game without restrictions, even if some manage to cheat

Go search the forums and if you still dont agree then... deal with it.

The answer is no 10000%.

Shogun_

Otr wrote: »

Game masters (GMs) will be present and active on Ashes of Creation servers.[5]

I would like these game masters to be some majestic big creatures, each unique.
When they would catch players cheating, it should be an event worth being seen.

Public Execution please

HexologyNate

I don't agree sorry, while it's true that RMT and bots can ruin the economy of an MMO in a lot of the examples we have the bots weren't the main reason for an economy going down hill - rather a factor to be aware of. There are steps you can take to be proactive with banning bots and RMT, and I think these systems and processes will be much more useful and community/engagement friendly than just removing player trading...

NishUK

I hear you, it did wonders for controlling BDO.

It needs are far better approach than absolutely no trading though, additionally it makes the average user experience more complicated.

Chime

*shakes head vigorously* Noooo, trade is essential for our economy.

Liniker

No.

Mag7spy

Me when people say there weren't bots on BDO and i know they clearly didn't play the game.

Mag7spy

Tyranthraxus

The only good thing I experienced in BDO was the smoothness the game engine offered. I've never seen another game that had pop-up ads *AS YOU WERE PLAYING*, for cash shop items. Not a good game to garner ideas from.

insomnia

Have you even looked into what the game is about? The game is about player interaction. Risk vs rewards. It's clear you are clueless about the game

Isn't Black Desert online also p2w pile of garbage.

Tex

Sometimes you got to choose between two bad things, unfortunately gold selling and p2w cash shop items is a thing and it ruins games.
If not block player trade, then a system that can be immune to gold selling
WOW succeed at the beginning because you needed to make the raids yourself and the items where untradeable, remember?

Tex

insomnia wrote: »

Have you even looked into what the game is about? The game is about player interaction. Risk vs rewards. It's clear you are clueless about the game

Isn't Black Desert online also p2w pile of garbage.

I know, but exactly that it's why it is going to fail unfortunately.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

Wildberry

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

sb1285n

Just make a game that requires half a brain cell to earn gold and you will make it significantly harder for gold sellers. For example, Lost Ark struggles with this because they have a game mode with infinite grind potential that's super easy to bot. That's it, that's the majority of gold sellers. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's not impossible either.

Dareow

The only good solution is to create or allow systems for players to punish other players for gold farming or bot behavior.

For ex.
Taxes or only allowing "non black market trades" in the cities/nodes would help mitigate this. Imagine that gold or gear is marked if it was transferred outside a node. In that case it would be "targeted" by future game economic systems to shun this behavior. If traded inside the city then the city could implement a tax to discourage large transactions. Also if managers of the city (players or GMs) could banish or target the black market as an event then the tagged goods mentioned earlier could change the players rep and allow the players to punish the other players.

Tex

Wildberry wrote: »

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

I love that to, I know what you're saying.
But what is the point of a good game if it;s dead because of gold selling?
Archeage was almost perfect in craft, trade, PVP, mass PVP, class uniqueness, high risk high reward and it's dead because of gold selling. One person could not be killed by 80 players, and he could just kill 10 players in 2 seconds. He ran away to wait for it;s CDs then came back and kill another 10 players.

Tryol

Turning off important systems just because malicious users might interface them is something I would only expect from companies who are solely profit oriented and doesn't care at all about the integrity of their game at all. Thankfully this does not seem to be the case with Intrepid so far.

I'd argue that having mechanics taken away from normal players just because there is a chance they could be used for malicious things can ultimately lead to a worse overall experience than leaving the mechanics in and letting the community figure things out.

Although definitely more expensive (in every sense of the word), building monitoring systems and having an active Support/GM team is the best possible way to handle something like gold trading or bots. This is also what Intrepid seems to be going for.

Steven pledging to have an active and robust GM team to me is one of the biggest standalone proofs that he knows what he is doing in general.

BaSkA_9x2

BDO has no trading because it would hurt the P2W, anything else is simply an excuse that shills for that game love to repeat.

Gold selling is not hard to detect if you put enough effort into it and if the game is designed in a way to help it.

Having worked with fraud detection software in the past I can think of a handful of simple pattern recognition algorithms to detect potentially suspicious trades, and I'm sure Intrepid is capable of creating many more and much more sophisticated ones (especially if the game logs information such as IP, HWID, MAC address, character or account "balance" [i.e. how much gold one has gained or lost during trades], etc for every trade between players). With all that information, update the account "gold selling score" that tells how likely it is for an account to be involved in RMT.

Everything up to this point is automated. Now comes the part most companies don't give a shit: pay real people to determine which accounts with a high score are involved in RMT and which ones are false-positives. Then, proceed to manually run a couple of more consuming and complex algorithms to find and ban all parties involved.

I only speak for myself, but I would bet many people would say the same: I won't play an MMORPG without player to player trading.

Happymeal2415

Tex wrote: »

Wildberry wrote: »

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

I love that to, I know what you're saying.
But what is the point of a good game if it;s dead because of gold selling?
Archeage was almost perfect in craft, trade, PVP, mass PVP, class uniqueness, high risk high reward and it's dead because of gold selling. One person could not be killed by 80 players, and he could just kill 10 players in 2 seconds. He ran away to wait for it;s CDs then came back and kill another 10 players.

Did you get your crystal ball off amazon or somewhere else? I'd like to buy one

bigepeen

OP actually has a good point. I don't know how Intrepid is going to deal with the bots and gold selling, but if it gets out of control it can certainly make the game p2w and ruin the game. Direct player to player trading makes it easy to make selling gold very difficult to detect by using proxy accounts and such.

Mag7spy

bigepeen wrote: »

OP actually has a good point. I don't know how Intrepid is going to deal with the bots and gold selling, but if it gets out of control it can certainly make the game p2w and ruin the game. Direct player to player trading makes it easy to make selling gold very difficult to detect by using proxy accounts and such.

Bdo had plenty of bots, a subscription model greatly reduces them

Jahlon

Tex wrote: »

Hey guys!
Follow me with this, think about it!
Many MMORPG failed because:
1. No content or just simply a bad game.
2. Pay to win from cash shop.
3. Gold selling.

I'm gonna tackle just the 3rd one, Gold selling in this post.


No one, literally no one can make a game 100% bot proof (auto farmer bots). No matter the system in place, there will always be someone smarter than them to get around the system.
The only way to stop them is to just disable trading between players and market prices are dynamically fixed (minimum and maximum price of a item) by an automated systems that takes into account the whole prices put by the players or just simply manually put them by the admins.

Black Desert online now survived just because this. Everything you have you your account is purely your work (or teamwork).
Archeage was a perfect game at it's roots, you had almost everything you wanted from a MMORPG and failed because of cash shop the first round and then because of the gold selling. One player could simply kill 10 players in one shot because of its P2W gear.

I know it takes allot of fun out of the game, I realize this but this is the only way that someone tested until now and it works.

Gold selling is an industry now, very profitable and there are huge sums of $$ to gain from it. They will ruin the industry if we let them.

Think about it, all the MMORPGs are doomed to fail because of the artificial player progression (gold selling or cash shop).


MMORPGs are games for hardcore players mostly, it takes time, guts and brains to be in the front. This is at the foundation of any MMORPG.

AOC has the chance to change the market and I hope it does.

I salute you!

Let me think about that one for a second. NOOOOOOO