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[Suggestion] Instanced Casual PvP Wargames

FirstChapterFirstChapter Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Were there plans for instanced battlegrounds for casual pvp wargames? Like CtF, SaD, CaH, or Ellimination? Maybe quick matches accessible to everyone so anyone can have a fun few matches or more if they so choose.

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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2022
    Nope.
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    The games focus is more to encourage node vs node pvp and open world pvp. Implemented instanced battle grounds and theme park style queuing would take that away from the games design. There is talk about arena's but not much has been officially announced about it but I personally imagine it'll be a node/vassal thing opposing to cross world queueing.

    Instanced pvp such as battle ground generally takes the player base away from open world pvp. It's an unfortunate truth that has been displayed and proven in many games. Giving players the option to participate just doesn't encourage that sort of playstyle to be a major part of the game becoming a secondary side feature opposed to a main feature.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    If Ashes implemented something like this, I would consider it to be Intrepid trying to keep the last remaining players happy before the game eventually shuts down.

    As in the above post, this kind of content is not what Ashes PvP is about, and so the only reason to implement it would be to keep those last few PvP players around a little longer.
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    If there is arenas I'd expect that to be que based. Else it wouldn't make any sense and you can just cheese your way to the top fighting the same person over and over again.
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    I'd expect battlegrounds to be qued as well with some kind of obj but they could have a more unique design.

    53qioi11b30o.png
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    Battlegrounds is op world so prob unique system behind it as its a event that pops up.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Battlegrounds is op world so prob unique system behind it as its a event that pops up.

    Battlegrounds are things like caravans, guild and node wars, sieges (if they end up being open world) and potentially top end raid bosses.

    All battlegrounds will do is flag you purple and disable most of the death penalties.
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    @Mag7spy there hasn't been any official information on arena's or how they will work. For example, we dont know if it will be a global queueing system vs node and associated vassals for queueing. I'm hoping for the latter so this way people could travel to different empires for different arena rosters if desired.
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    @Mag7spy there hasn't been any official information on arena's or how they will work. For example, we dont know if it will be a global queueing system vs node and associated vassals for queueing. I'm hoping for the latter so this way people could travel to different empires for different arena rosters if desired.

    Only information we have is the wiki, if it is instanced id expect ques since there is a ranking ladder system. They aren't going to rewrite the wheel and create something new for arenas.
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    edited July 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    @Mag7spy there hasn't been any official information on arena's or how they will work. For example, we dont know if it will be a global queueing system vs node and associated vassals for queueing. I'm hoping for the latter so this way people could travel to different empires for different arena rosters if desired.

    Only information we have is the wiki, if it is instanced id expect ques since there is a ranking ladder system. They aren't going to rewrite the wheel and create something new for arenas.

    Yes, there is a high possibility that if it's instanced that it could be queue based. No one suggested they would reinvent the wheel for arena's but as mentioned we dont know the full details on how the arena system will work in terms of queueing vs composition allowances etc.

    Different nodes such as military nodes have an arena IIRC but i'm not sure if that functions the same way for its purpose for arena vs the arena content segregation or for how the node is ruled through trials as one example.

    We also dont know how the rating systems works, match making or the purpose of the rating system in relation to in-game content outside of arena's. All we know is there is currently plans for arena.

    We also dont know if it's theme park based where you queue up anywhere or you have to go into a node/vassal to sign up for queueing which could connect you to the other nodes with arena's.
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2022
    "Noaani wrote: »
    Battlegrounds are things like caravans, guild and node wars, sieges (if they end up being open world) and potentially top end raid bosses.

    All battlegrounds will do is flag you purple and disable most of the death penalties.

    I'm sorry my friend but you are incorrect.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with the flagging system or with open world pvp events.

    Battlegrounds are within the Arena system which is 100% instanced as all the other Arena modes are, this was said Multiple times over the years ever since 2017 and they even went into details on instanced arenas being a service provided by military nodes, all this info can be found in the Wiki.
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    chdnn11t86jo.png

    Correct, that's his definition for battlegrounds quoted on the wiki. But as the OP was asking about in this thread was instanced battlegrounds where you queue up for them such as a capture the flag, point capture etc which are match based. :wink: That sort of queue up and be brought to the match is theme park style which is more than likely not going to be part of the game as it separates the player base and pushes players away from the games design for more open world conflict.

    The only thing that will be instanced/queued for is more than likely just the arena's. Players are expected to explore and traverse the world :smile: I dont think their goal is to make an e-sports arena focused game but if the event that occurs, it may play out that way.

    The open world events such as those originally were planned to be participant based at the location, not a queued event either IIRC. So when you get to that location, you'll have some sort thing indicating which side you'd like to participate in where then you'll be flagged as a combatant within the event zone to prevent any issues. IIRC, there was a discussion about this awhile ago where people could still intervene with it but you'd be technically a non-combatant(green) and if they chose to attack you, would gain corruption (red). But as anything, I am not 100% sure on the details of said events in relation to flagging/instancing per se.
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    If its not mentioned in the forums I assumed it most likely won't be int he game if its a new mode since they are pretty much against scoop creep. I'm just linking the information so people can read it me included to double check.
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    @Mag7spy no worries dude :smile:
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2022
    Capture the flag is one of the Siege objectives.
    Arenas are really the only instanced, queued content.

    I dunno what "casual wargames" is intended to mean.
    I think Ashes would categorize that as "meaningless PvP".
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    No and I hope it remains this way. I want the PvP focused on WPvP and the whole Node and Caravan system.
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    NiKrNiKr Member
    I'd definitely love some L2 Olympiad-style arena ladder (and the current arena might be quite similar to that) with its own rewards and stuff, but those wouldn't be casual at all and I'd personally like them to be a "later update" thing, so that it adds more content for the people who've maxxed out all the things they wanted to max out and became a bit tired of caravan pvp.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    "Noaani wrote: »
    Battlegrounds are things like caravans, guild and node wars, sieges (if they end up being open world) and potentially top end raid bosses.

    All battlegrounds will do is flag you purple and disable most of the death penalties.

    I'm sorry my friend but you are incorrect.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with the flagging system or with open world pvp events.

    Battlegrounds are within the Arena system which is 100% instanced as all the other Arena modes are, this was said Multiple times over the years ever since 2017 and they even went into details on instanced arenas being a service provided by military nodes, all this info can be found in the Wiki.

    Hi, you're wrong.

    Battlegrounds in WoW are arenas.

    Battlegrounds in Ashes are objective-based events where PvP battles occur in the open world.

    I would get you some links, or you could search Battlegrounds on the wiki and read literally the first line of the page.
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    FirstChapterFirstChapter Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I wasn't aware of the strong feelings against the idea, i was just making the suggestion and putting it on the table. As for what I mean by casual wargames, I'm talking about where anyone can que up for a match, complete it in a random group at any time in the player's convenience. I wasn't meaning to detract from wpvp, the main comparison I can draw that balances the two is WoW, and I don't believe battlegrounds pulls away players from the wpvp aspects, especially when wpvp is mandatory regardless. It was mostly a suggestion for extra content for players that enjoy that sort of pvp matches, as I have in WoW.
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    BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member
    edited July 2022
    I wasn't aware of the strong feelings against the idea, i was just making the suggestion and putting it on the table. As for what I mean by casual wargames, I'm talking about where anyone can que up for a match, complete it in a random group at any time in the player's convenience. I wasn't meaning to detract from wpvp, the main comparison I can draw that balances the two is WoW, and I don't believe battlegrounds pulls away players from the wpvp aspects, especially when wpvp is mandatory regardless. It was mostly a suggestion for extra content for players that enjoy that sort of pvp matches, as I have in WoW.

    Don't worry about "strong feelings against the idea": vocal minorities are a reality everywhere, including in this forum.

    As long as instanced PvP only rewards cosmetics such as titles, skins, etc, because there's no risk vs. reward in instanced PvP, there's nothing wrong with adding other options such as Battlegrounds, since it's basically an Arena for more people.

    I hope the game ends up implementing BGs maybe in a different way than we're used to from other games, but there's no reason not to have it, maybe except from maybe breaking the lore.

    Either way, it doesn't matter what anyone says. Even after launch, if enough people would like to see BGs and Steven agrees, it can be added to the game because IMO it doesn't break anything, it's just another way for people who enjoy it to have fun and people who hate it to just ignore it.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I wasn't aware of the strong feelings against the idea, i was just making the suggestion and putting it on the table. As for what I mean by casual wargames, I'm talking about where anyone can que up for a match, complete it in a random group at any time in the player's convenience. I wasn't meaning to detract from wpvp, the main comparison I can draw that balances the two is WoW, and I don't believe battlegrounds pulls away players from the wpvp aspects, especially when wpvp is mandatory regardless. It was mostly a suggestion for extra content for players that enjoy that sort of pvp matches, as I have in WoW.
    Ashes already has its own version of battlegrounds - Sieges and Caravans and Guild Wars and Node Wars.
    The devs do not want players easily sidestepping open world particpation - which is why instanced content will be relatively rare.

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    If you're looking for a quick PvP match, arenas sound like they fit the bill. I assume arenas will be elimination-style PvP instances.

    Arenas will have 1 man, 3 man, 5 man and possibly 20 man Free-For-All (Deathmatch) group sizes.

    They might mix it up with other modes like Capture the Flag, but who knows?

    In any case, I'm very much looking forward to arenas. Open world events are awesome, but I love a balanced fight. Queuing as a single person for an arena match sounds extremely fast.
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