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The future of skilling/jobs/professions

In the basic attack weapon update, they talked about wanting to make BiS gear profession related, which i find absolutely amazing.

Is there a plan to have in depth professions (crafting and gathering) that tie to every aspect of the game, like questing and PvE (consumables)? Dropping a bis lvl 80(?) weapon and then at level 100(?) crafting that weapon together with other mats into a bis 100 wep.

The best game that does this is by far runescape, their skilling is in everything and thus makes the game playable for thousands of hours without even feeling the need to PvE or raid. IMO this is what kept that game alive, an in depth skilling system that is monstrously efficient.

I think with nostalgia at my 3 months afk fishing spree while just studying, and when all that was over it was cooking time and using the food to train the slayer skill which i needed to be able to access a mob that dropped a side material that i needed a high smithing level to craft into a BiS item that changed the way i played. You see how skilling can be HIGHLY rewarding.

What do you guys think?


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    I would like if the materials needed for BiS gear was found doing multiple things. Get materials from raids, gathering, world bosses, etc.

    With them also saying you cant be a master in all professions(I think they said you can only master one but not sure) it all ties together that they want players to have to work together.
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    CawwCaww Member
    I'm pretty sure there will not be BIS drops due to crafting having the top of the line items. Upgradable drops that can be crafted to BIS will need to be tradable and just become another mat in the process.
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hopefully no such thing as afk fishing, or afk anything.
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    tautau wrote: »
    Hopefully no such thing as afk fishing, or afk anything.

    Having 2 methods of training, one slow but afk ( click every 2-3 minutes) and one that requires focus but is a lot faster, makes skilling much more enjoyable.
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    Having 2 methods of training, one slow but afk ( click every 2-3 minutes) and one that requires focus but is a lot faster, makes skilling much more enjoyable.

    Hopefully, no afk anything.
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    The best game that does this is by far runescape, their skilling is in everything and thus makes the game playable for thousands of hours without even feeling the need to PvE or raid. IMO this is what kept that game alive, an in depth skilling system that is monstrously efficient.

    Runescape has a very intricate skilling which is, like you said, the best one ever created. However, I am not a fan of how leveling up a (processing or crafting in Ashes case) skill is designed. Spending 300 hours creating the same potion or smithing the same platebody or offering bones at an altar or crafting the same glassware, etc is not fun. It might be rewarding, it might be a money making method, but even though it might be fun for some, it's not enjoyable at all - at least not for me.

    In my opinion that's not only a "problem" in Runescape, though, it's a the design of most if not all MMORPGs: sitting at the bank or at the crafting station for a couple hundred hours just to reach a certain level while watching Netflix or YouTube videos (again, talking mostly about processing or crafting skill trees, gathering skills are not my focus).

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want Ashes to keep the same design but make it 8 hours long instead of 150 in order to make it easier and accessible, that's not what I mean. My point is that it would be cool if Ashes was able to come up with a new design for skilling (processing and crafting), while still taking a long time to do it.

    Isn't there a way to make mastering skills still be very time consuming but without the tediousness of the current common skilling design? The current design is probably realistic (do something over and over again until you become good at it), but is it fun? Is it even worth trying to come up with something new? Probably not, but hey, that's just my two cents.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
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    ElderElder Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited July 2022
    Having 2 methods of training, one slow but afk ( click every 2-3 minutes) and one that requires focus but is a lot faster, makes skilling much more enjoyable.

    I'm a big fan of RuneScape, what's considered AFK in that game is anything that doesn't require you to click for around 1-5 minutes. I wouldn't mind some skilling options with a similar intensity.

    Although the grind in that game is insane so it's almost a necessity to have low intensity skilling options.

    Edit: I just read your post, ahaha.
    Which is the greater folly, summoning the demon or expecting gratitude from it?
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    OFC this is ashes, no need for the grind and repetitiveness. Just pointing out that there is a very good crafting system out there so maybe there can be some inspiration take out from it.
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    PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There better be at least some grind.... how am i sharpening weapons without a grind stone...
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    PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Otr wrote: »
    Your wish is fulfilled!
    Grinding Stone is a crafting material (processed good) in Ashes of Creation.[1]

    Thank god.
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    GygaxGygax Member
    I am looking forward to the crafting in Ashes and echo many of the thoughts in the forum already however I do have one major concern. With only being able to pick one tree to progress in I do see an early game block for some, for example I am looking forward to becoming an alchemist/potion brewer. So day one I start my travels and I cannot gather the mats I need, our nodes are not yet big enough for an AH and I may not be running with a group 24/7 with a gatherer in it, how well can I progress my chosen craft on day 1, day 5, day 55 etc. It seems that gathering will have plenty to do right off the bat while the other two trees will have a "waiting period" of days or weeks until the nodes build up and we get proper markets/AH gatherings of people.

    One way around this would be that everybody can do the bottom tier of each tree (gather the most basic plants for example) and they you chose to specialize in one tree, that way every tree has things to do day 1.
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    KovrmKovrm Member
    I'm not to worried about it, tbh. Hopefully we'll have a better idea of how it'll work in a2, since they're supposedly going to have the crafting stuff up and running.
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    RuneScape has playability for a long time because it is very grindy. As you said, you afk fished for 3 months, and that didn't even include the cooking afterwards. AoC is going to have a challenge on their hands of not feeling too grindy, but also having loads of playability and not just reaching max level in a week and quitting shortly after. I think their current goal is 45 days to max level or something? Personally I like the grind. I think being max level should be a feat in itself only achieved by hardcore players. And when the average player hits max level, the level cap should be increasing shortly after.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Ok I'll be devil's advocate here. Note that the things I say are not entirely reflective of what I believe.

    The reasons that long skilling periods make players upset are just two.

    1.Wanting the reward for it sooner.
    2. Worry that other people will get ahead of you by just throwing more time at the problem.

    I say this because in the end, you have to answer 'What would I rather be doing?'.

    If you log onto a game, think 'I want to craft' (let's assume that the crafting is at least somewhat interesting in smaller batches) and then craft, there comes a point in that crafting, different for each of us, where we think "This is monotonous" OR "I would rather be doing X".

    A problem of mismatch between 'goal of game' and 'fun of game' that we see in lots of things. Your mindset determines whether or not many forms of skilling are fun. Novelty helps.

    There will always be that person who thinks "I want/need to be a high level crafter" and burns through the collective resources of half a server to get there first and most efficiently, no matter how you design the economy. The thing most people seem to want is the ability to engage with the system in terms of either 'what they need to make' or 'what the process of making it is like', right?

    But games usually focus on 'You are this level now, you can make this useful thing that you couldn't make before' without changing anything else other than materials/ingredients. In the end, crafting is about making stuff, and as long as your goal entering that sphere is 'to make stuff' and not 'to play the crafting game', the result will always be disappointing.

    Think of a time-waster game you actually like to play. I'm talking 'Random Mobile or Facebook game' level. Why do you play it? Is it actually engaging enough that you'll just 'choose to play it randomly'?

    The minigame could be the coolest form of 'Rune Crafting + 3D rotating Asynchronous Tetris' and if the player's goal was 'I just wanna make the item' they will always think 'Why do I have to play this game just to get my item?', even if they normally like the game or might play it on their own.

    We all have our preferences for 'which minigame', but in the end, Ashes can only choose a few probably.

    And they will always just become 'an obstacle to the goal' at some point for some person. If you find yourself complaining about the crafting in a game, either you don't like their minigame (this includes the economic 'minigame' of gathering or buying materials), or you don't like crafting, you just like the end result of it.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    For me...
    I think I'm ready for the crafting to reflect wha I'm actually doing, rather than just hving mini-ames for the sake of mini-games in th EQ2 manner.
    I love Valheim crafting, although I'm not convinced that's practical for an MMORPG.
    I liked most of the crafting mechanics in New World, although I didn't really like the actual products we crafted.

    In Alpha One, I felt it was too difficult to prep the recipes.
    There needs to be an easier way to know how many total rivets you're going to need to make your final product.
    Seemed like I'd make 3/4 of the components and then realize I have to make some more rivets for the 4th component, when I'd prefer to make all the rivets at the same time.

    (I don't play mobile games or FB games, so... no... I really don't want to play Tetris while I'm Crafting. I want it to basically feel like I'm Crafting, not playing some other game.)
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think the method that Ashes plans to use is already about as good as we're likely to get, but 'all it is', is 'making more things as you go' and 'procuring the materials'.

    But I'm biased because this is both 'what I'm used to' and 'my design preference overall'.

    If I wanted a special Gold Trim Gambeson, I'd expect to have to first get Cotton or something to make the padding, Gold thread or trim to put on it, and then someone to quilt the thing into the right shape.

    If I wanted armor plates added to it to make Gold Brocade Aketon, I'd expect to need the Gambeson, plus ingots, then the sheets, then the rivets, then someone else to put that together.

    If I wanted an even more awesome high level Brigandine, I'd expect to need to start from an Aketon, add even more plates and special items onto that, and so on.

    (used a bunch of Cloth stuff so that it relates directly to what I'm used to from FFXI and doesn't translate specifically to anything in Ashes)

    I could see a game setting where the top Armorsmith in the Node relies on their 'Apprentices' to make the Gambesons, Aketons, Ingots, etc, and they focus on 'managing those people and making the Brigandines'. To me that's the 'minigame'. Being social with providers of materials, and gathering those materials and relationships.

    A specific 'minigame' for 'attaching plates onto your Aketon to make the Brigandine specifically' is fine with me, but I also don't care about it.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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