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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
The main issue with doing this is that there is in fact quite a lot to explain, some of which requires prior understanding, while not necessarily advancing this conversation.
You could wait a month, you know this will come up again, and at some point, you're gonna get that person who doesn't go 'Uh... well this game is old so it doesn't count!'
At which point, Ice Dragons ahoy!
I would also love to have a real conversation about this sort of thing, but I feel like it's gonna happen one way or another, and it might be better to not have the whole thing here.
Anyways for YOUR most basic understanding, the main framework you'd need to even know what to think about...
The delay between Spells being cast by Jormungand is random but AVERAGES 8 seconds. Paralyze is 'random chance for ability or melee attack to fail', as well as go on CD if it was a special ability. This used to apply to EVERY ABILITY INCLUDING ULT.
Absolute Terror is 'your character is literally frozen and cannot move, be moved, etc, for about 8 seconds'. You still take all damage. If you were mid attack when Terrored, I believe the attack finishes after. This will be super important in combination with...
Spike Flail, which is a special TP Attack response to taking hate from a certain cone behind the dragon while it is on the ground. That's it. Doesn't require anything else other than TP Gauge and normally oneshots all light armored classes. For this dragon specifically, it hits outside of the current alliance with hate. If you are there at all you die.
The area where you fight it is filled with enemies that aggro to spellcasting. Not 'completed spellcasting', the act of spellcasting. They are relatively powerful and must be defeated, but in the end, just adds.
If the weather changes to Blizzard, Jormungand's attacks all become 20% stronger and additional Magic-Aggro Adds appear, these ones being somewhat resistant to physical damage. Their respawn rate is higher.
If the person with hate tries to pull Jormungand away from his preferred spot, the dragon will instead use 'Draw In' which will deposit them right in front of Jormy's face. You can sometimes VERY slowly get him to the EDGE of the area so you don't have to watch your back.
Hate Reset means 'set your hate value to 0'. Which means that whoever was at the highest number above you now has hate.
Blood Weapon is not dependent on TP Gauge and can be activated whenever, because chaos. It causes Jormungand to absorb health equal to damage dealt with standard attack (bites). It has no meaningful effect when the dragon is airborne.
You've basically made up in your head the connection between 'Me bringing up Jormungand' and 'my hypothesis'. That's where this normally happens.
Mag asked 'Where do you track 6-7 things? What encounters out there are even just chaos?'
It is true that the answer to THOSE THINGS does not counter anything you said above.
Just ignore me, ok?
Tab skills have a miss chance included in the RNG. So they do not hit 100% of the time.
And RNG is factored in much more for Tab skills than for Action skills - per the Ashes game design.
I'm confused. i know i jumped in late and might have miss understood what you were arguing. I'm sorry for the headache.
These are your words: "I believe that in an Action Combat system, 50% of 16-person groups could defeat a slightly toned down Jormungand."
What are you trying to prove with this scenario?
I am not trying to prove a specific thing in one direction or another relative to that 50% thing.
So, backtracking. You jumped in late and asked 'what does this have to do with Action Combat systems'. And I was trying to say 'It's not directly related, it's a counterpoint to Mag'. I went too far and brought in more unnecessary numbers. So that's my fault here.
There is no 'scenario', it was just me adding my experience as a designer because that's what I end up doing when I'm thinking about it. That's why you should ignore it. In order for any of that response to have any meaning to you, you'd need to have a predisposition toward trusting in my design experience or skill, which you have no reason to do afaik.
It's a lot of effort for me to switch between 'designer talking to other designers' and 'clearly tracking and debating only the points in question', so I mess it up sometimes.
Im assuming you are trying to quote something without the actual quoting.
Where are you finding the information all tab skills had a higher miss chance applied to them?
You mean that when you're in tab combat and have a target, your ability will always go towards your target so it will always "hit" it.
What I think Dygz means is "when that tab ability hit the target, the dmg might not go through due to rng of evasion-to-accuracy equation", while in action it's usually "if you hit a dude with your action attack - you hit him".
I haven't played enough BDO or other action games so I wanted to ask this of those who did play them, are there games where you have evasion stats on top of just physical dodging? And in case that there aren't, would you be ok with a game that did have evasion on top of dodging? Cause I feel like most action players would feel real fucking bad if after a minute of iframe dodges they finally manage to hit their target, but their accuracy is not enough to overcome that target's evasion stats
I know what he means and I keep repeating myself when I saw rng effects both so I'm making sure I'm not missing a quote. It is either I'm missing a quote or he doesn't know what he is talking about and doing his normal weirdness
In BDO Me and my friend both attacked a ninja who went afk (my friend has a lot of gear) And we couldn't kill him or hurt him, he evaded all of our attacks. (I use dodge when i mean a physical dodge, evade is my tab target mentality word for stats) Its kind of a big deal if you can't hurt someone in bdo.
BDO has evasion on top of Dodging because BDO is actually happening on two levels.
Evasion handles micro-dodging, dealing with those 130 degree attack cones and huge AoE.
Your physical skill handles macro-dodging. Getting out of the way of big attacks that you know are coming, or misleading your opponent to attack the wrong spot.
It's neither good nor bad in itself, but BDO is of course, garbahge.
And the answer is, 'Yes. There will be those elements available in the game.'"
---Steven
"RNG is always going to play a role in Ashes of Creation, whether that be in PvP or PvE. But one way to mitigate that is through the Action system. The Action system is going to be far less dependent upon on those dice rolls. And they'll be far more in your own hands. It won't ever completely eliminate that, but it's a way for us to reward (player) skills play vs tactical strategy type play."
---Jeffrey
Have a party lvl room, class room (for synergy abilities that I would love to see but might not be in the game), cross party room where respective shot callers could talk to each other, and raid-wide speech for the leader.
This kind of functionality allowed me to control my 120-member guild fairly easily because I could say "archer party on that wall, mage party on this wall, melees go below and guard the entrance". Party leaders were able to relay info to me and others w/o leaving their own party room. And they needed their party room because they had to do second-to-second callouts for their own party.
If you had that kind of info relation in an open voice chat it'd be hell and pure confusion, especially during the more hardcore parts of the encounter.
I would personally be fine with that cause I'm used to exactly that kind of "pve", but I do agree with Noaani's point that having great pve (as they promised with their "only 10% can beat this") would attract more people which is good for everyone.
Now they could've meant just gear-based separation of players when it comes to raiding, but I feel like that'd be disingenuous on their part. When you say "some of our raids can only be cleared by <10% of players", literally everyone would think "oh so it's like the super complex raids from wow/ff14 then?" At least that's exactly what I thought when I first heard it, even though my whole pve experience was just "I need better gear to beat this".
Also
Lockdowns won't likely be tab-targeted skills. This is to avoid imbalanced combos with skill shot (action targeted) abilities.[5]
Hard CCs may be housed in action oriented skills because they are skill shots that are more difficult to land.[7][5]
We're trying to stay away from hard locks as much as we possibly can. We want to have the system be very play, counter-play, counter-counter-play kind of feel.[2] – Jeffrey Bard
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crowd_control
i hope this also helps you and possible OP understand that even tho Tab Skills has its advantages, action skills will also have its advantages to balance the hybrid system.
Aren't we all sinners?
As the title says: How in fact, "does one balance tab vs action abilities"
And the answer my friends. Is......
Wait for it...
Testing.
You may applaud.