Weapon skill lines......

This is a post I'm making so the devs can at least get one take on their decision to have weapons not have skills attached to them because from my standpoint I view making weapon skill lines as the way they can escape meta mentality killing the majority of the secondary archtypes use as without weapon skill lines, every secondary archtype combo NEEDS to feel different and useful in its own way or people will just find the best class and never swap but since they are on reccord saying they dont want to make each class feel like a actually different class but a slightly different spin on the main class it becomes an issue of either there is just gonna be nothing that differentiates one healer to the next or the last tank to this one. Basically weapon skill lines would be able to do what they have done in ESO of make a sword and board dragonknight tank not just feel different to another dragonknight tank especially in combination with the morphs and heres a video going into even more depth on this topic that if a staffer from intrepid sees this than please oh please make sure everyone at the studio sees this to get why weapon skill lines can be your saving grace....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ChMwPNxjGM&t=9s

I want this game to be as good as it can and i will say that weapon skill lines wouldnt just save build diversity and making each persons build feel like there own based on what they choose but it would also save entire weapon categories from being relegated to a "useless compared to the alternatives" trashbin of obscurity as people decide they dont need to use lances or orbs or spellbooks or etc because they have wands, daggers, and bows and with how fast the daggers swung to the point they were literally cancelling the end of the last attack anim with each swing its a matter of this is what WILL happen if weapon skill lines arent a thing in ashes.

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Comments

daveywavey

I dunno, he seemed pretty dead-set against it.

Mag7spy

I feel the same, swapping weapon skills is lame. Id rather emphasis on classes over people being able to just swap all their skills with weapons. Any effort on weapon skills id rather just more cool animations on basic attacks with more variants on weapons.

mcstackerson

You are just moving skills from the class to the weapon. Same issue of metas will still happen, it will just be with the weapon as well as class. ESO and GWs have issues with this.

Dygz

We have a Weapon Skills tree.
Let's see what the devs have planned for that.

AidanKD

I think we need to trust in the augment system. Not only will secondary archetypes provide unique augmentations for the primary's active abilities, but there are many sources of augments across the game not limited to Religion, Node? Probably PvP activities may source some. It's a system we truly know very little about but I hope that it fulfils that need for variety and may even allow mirror matches (in terms of archetype) to be different - depending on how well they balance combinations and allow them to be "somewhat" competitive.

CROW3

Moving some active skills to weapons won't prevent a META FOtM. GW2 was all about weapon-based skills and they certainly have META specs.

Rookk

daveywavey wrote: »

I dunno, he seemed pretty dead-set against it.

saddly i would agree

Rookk

mcstackerson wrote: »

You are just moving skills from the class to the weapon. Same issue of metas will still happen, it will just be with the weapon as well as class. ESO and GWs have issues with this.

i see what your thinking but what im saying is that they have far less weapons than the 64 "classes" they would have to make to get the same result and it does what steven said he wanted that being people being able to see a enemy and know roughly what they can do even if they dont know what exactly they have chosen to have. if you have to learn 64 classes and remember what each does and all of all of their abilites than there would likely already be the issue that each class is the same as any other character with the same class meaning the real thing that decides what you can do is your secondary class choice kinda like how werewolves in eso feel where there isnt really any difference between literally any of em and on top of that having to make each class unique would be hard as shit. if they instead do the tried and true method of ESO where each class and its morphs arent really all that different from the og ability and the same goes for the weapon skills but of course there is multple weapons to choose from does make even a stam dk using a sword and board playing tank feel way different to a stam dk using a two hander to tank instead as the two hander would likely have a lot of damage shields over the sword and boards burning and poison abilities.

Mag7spy

You aren't suppose to know every thing about who you are fighting that be boring. Granted people already do that in mobas. You know what class they are and that will give you a rough idea of what to expect, and the rest you find out in the fight.

People are really setting themselves up for disappointed if they think there is 64 unique classes and not understanding how augments work. Warriors having the same abilities they just work differently slightly or have different effects. Or im just keeping my expectations low and hope they all feel very unique in the end and id be fine with that lmao.

Rookk

CROW3 wrote: »

Moving some active skills to weapons won't prevent a META FOtM. GW2 was all about weapon-based skills and they certainly have META specs.

yea ik but it would help in drastically reducing it as now there isnt 64 classes but still just the 8 and of course there would basically probably be a similar layout of one handed weapons, two handed weapons (greatswords, battle axes, great hammers), spears (two handed spears, lances, one handed spears), bows and crossbows, and lastly spell casting tools including staves, staffs, orbs, spellbooks, and wands. basically they would only haveta do something similar to ESO where sure all two handed weapons have the same skills but a axe offers more crit damage or daggers offer more crit chance making it so each weapon has its use and depends on what your build lacks.

Rookk

Loading wrote: »

yea ik but it would help in drastically reducing it as now there isnt 64 classes but still just the 8 and of course there would basically probably be a similar layout of one handed weapons, two handed weapons (greatswords, battle axes, great hammers), spears (two handed spears, lances, one handed spears), bows and crossbows, and lastly spell casting tools including staves, staffs, orbs, spellbooks, and wands. basically they would only haveta do something similar to ESO where sure all two handed weapons have the same skills but a axe offers more crit damage or daggers offer more crit chance making it so each weapon has its use and depends on what your build lacks.

beyond that since to my understanding there isnt going to be 2 resources but just one means that they could actually have even more passives where magical tools provide benefits to magical abilities and damage whereas more physical weapons offer better buffs to your physical abilities meaning the extra weapons could still have even more use.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Whatever is in the trees, I just want it to be meaningful for the choice you make, don't give me a ..1% increase crap Can't stand those as they're generic and you don't even notice them.

Rookk

Santanico wrote: »

Whatever is in the trees, I just want it to be meaningful for the choice you make, don't give me a ..1% increase crap Can't stand those as they're generic and you don't even notice them.

well i feel like it should stay around like a 10% buff to whatever it is and like in eso it should be a signifigant ENOUUUGHH choice that not just min maxers think carefully about while also still not being ground breaking like your base say weapon penetration sucks on your character and chosing a lance is gonna bring it to the same level as others or maybe your characters weapon pen is already high but you wanna bring it to its fucking limit and subsequently will basically see your basic weapon attacks ignore 100% armor even tho your damage/ crit chance and crit damage will likely suffer enough to counter balance.

bloodprophet

This is one of the major reasons I hate Garbage Wars 2 so much. I was really really disappointed with this system.

All of your skills will come from your primary archetype. Lets leave it at that and let the rest be augments like they have stated since the beginning.

falcorpix

bloodprophet wrote: »

This is one of the major reasons I hate Garbage Wars 2 so much. I was really really disappointed with this system.

All of your skills will come from your primary archetype. Lets leave it at that and let the rest be augments like they have stated since the beginning.

I dislike GW2 system aswell, personally I dont like how there are only "5" weapon skills, 1 being basic attacks and the other 4 often not being connected to the weapon playstyle at all.

For example, guardian, you pick a greatsword, you have you basic attacks and a gap closers, the other 3 skills are just "guardian magic" no greatsword skills.
Mesmer, same thing, you pick a weapon, but most of the skills could be done with any other weapon, its just about the "mesmer magic" not the weapons.
Could go on and on, its a system that relied too much on the class and not enough on weapons.

I hope weapons matter more in AoC.

Owren

I see where you’re coming from and I’m all for more build diversity, but they will have a weapon “talent tree” and augments so let’s see what they come up with. I don’t think anyone including the devs wants to limit build diversity…

It’d be cool if there were at least a couple skills associated with each weapon in addition to the basic attacks though..

daveywavey

Explains why it's so easy for any character to use any weapon though, if they're all essentially meaningless.

Dygz

In RPGs, my class abilities are way more important to my character identity than my weapon attacks.

Sure, in KOA: Reckoning, I love the variety of weapon attacks, but that is icing on the cake.

The June 2022 Combat Demo says that, with each weapon there are 3 basic combo attacks per direction.
We also should have combos which lead to an ultimate weapon attack.
And there is also a Weapon Skills tree.
So, let’s see how much variety we can mine from what the devs provide us.

bloodprophet

This is the kind of trash I want them to avoid.
Having half or more of your abilities being completely dependent on what stick your holding onto vs your primary archetype. Having 1 or two special abilities granted by a special ability from a weapon, a one off attack is fine but don't lock players into this kind of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqYaMlUbpgo

I had such high hopes going into GW2 after playing GW1 then a bunch of other games then stuff like this and their lack of class interdependence ruined for me. Haven't played since two weeks after launch. The alpha one here was better and more fun then that two weeks was.

daveywavey

bloodprophet wrote: »

I had such high hopes going into GW2 after playing GW1

Yeah, I was excited for GW2 after playing GW1, but once i saw the videos of it, I didn't even bother buying it. Dunno why they changed the formula so much.

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