Mag7spy wrote: » What is funny is i keep having to repeat myself, all those post talk about pve, hack and slash as in you are mindlessly killing tons of enemies. Its cleary they call it hack and slash because of the non existent pve content and how easy it is to kill mobs. And you are linking a bunch of articles from random game journalist that wouldn't even have gotten into the game to begin with more then a surface level. If you are posting game jurno reviewers as your point instead of explaining it you are being dishonest. I continue to tell you that is not how PvP works and its very mechanically heavy. If this is the sample you are bringing with you understand what im talking about with the game you simply don't know what im talking about, this post showing me that clearly. You continue to ignore what is actually being said because you dislike pve content when that honestly has nothing to do with the combat as it doesn't require you to have a deep understanding of it. Anyone can type in some keyword on the internet and have people explain things in a way they want to hear. Challenging content isn't pve if you only talk about pve with BDO you are not playing the game. Like you went out of your way to search for a few post with hardly any comments, video with no views in another language or journalist that don't even play the game really...Where are the creditable post calling it a hack and slash game at the very least. If you don't understand combat in relation to pvp there is nothing wrong with that but it also means you won't know the depth of the combat or understand what I'm talking about. So you shouldn't have a point saying its a hack and slash game with no rpg elements to it. I don't see customization on character build even on BDO'S level hack and slash games, or even the amount of skills you have. You don't know BDO, what even was your gear score....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjrSYuLP8X8https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-combat/
SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is funny is i keep having to repeat myself, all those post talk about pve, hack and slash as in you are mindlessly killing tons of enemies. Its cleary they call it hack and slash because of the non existent pve content and how easy it is to kill mobs. And you are linking a bunch of articles from random game journalist that wouldn't even have gotten into the game to begin with more then a surface level. If you are posting game jurno reviewers as your point instead of explaining it you are being dishonest. I continue to tell you that is not how PvP works and its very mechanically heavy. If this is the sample you are bringing with you understand what im talking about with the game you simply don't know what im talking about, this post showing me that clearly. You continue to ignore what is actually being said because you dislike pve content when that honestly has nothing to do with the combat as it doesn't require you to have a deep understanding of it. Anyone can type in some keyword on the internet and have people explain things in a way they want to hear. Challenging content isn't pve if you only talk about pve with BDO you are not playing the game. Like you went out of your way to search for a few post with hardly any comments, video with no views in another language or journalist that don't even play the game really...Where are the creditable post calling it a hack and slash game at the very least. If you don't understand combat in relation to pvp there is nothing wrong with that but it also means you won't know the depth of the combat or understand what I'm talking about. So you shouldn't have a point saying its a hack and slash game with no rpg elements to it. I don't see customization on character build even on BDO'S level hack and slash games, or even the amount of skills you have. You don't know BDO, what even was your gear score....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjrSYuLP8X8https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-combat/ Are you trying to imply the combat is different for PvP and PVE?
Mag7spy wrote: » When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg. BDO plays like shit. It just has animations to cover it up, so that people that care more about how a game looks (presumably so they can show off to their friends or somthing) are tricked in to thinking the combat is good.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg. BDO plays like shit. It just has animations to cover it up, so that people that care more about how a game looks (presumably so they can show off to their friends or somthing) are tricked in to thinking the combat is good. I'll ask you the same question, how much high end pvp did you do on BDO and what gear score did you get to.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg. BDO plays like shit. It just has animations to cover it up, so that people that care more about how a game looks (presumably so they can show off to their friends or somthing) are tricked in to thinking the combat is good. I'll ask you the same question, how much high end pvp did you do on BDO and what gear score did you get to. This is one of the stupider things I have seen you say. My "qualifications" are the words I am typing. If you cant refute what I am saying, it doesnt matter how much time I spent playing BDO. As such, why is it relevant?
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When we are talking about flow and feel of combat bdo does it the best at high levels, it feels good and plays well and that is a bonus to any mmorpg. BDO plays like shit. It just has animations to cover it up, so that people that care more about how a game looks (presumably so they can show off to their friends or somthing) are tricked in to thinking the combat is good. I'll ask you the same question, how much high end pvp did you do on BDO and what gear score did you get to. This is one of the stupider things I have seen you say. My "qualifications" are the words I am typing. If you cant refute what I am saying, it doesnt matter how much time I spent playing BDO. As such, why is it relevant? If you can't answer the question with any amount of confidence I can take it that you didn't play BDO for pvp nor how to learn the combat and control of the character properly. Nor trying more then one character and understanding all the mechanics for the game. It has a high learning curve its not like EQ where you can just tap a button and that is as far as the combat goes for using skills. "Plays like shit" means nothing for me for qualifications, if you have spent a decent amount of time on the game then I can have a conversation, else you don't know the depth of the combat or even played it long enough to understand the points I'd say. You thinking animations don't do anything as we have brought this up before shows your lack of understanding. In BDO it is like a dance, and all your moves and how you control it are pretty important for dealing and evading damage.
Noaani wrote: » Fact is, BDO combat is shit, it plays slow, it has stupid mechanics (modifiers to damage taken from specific classes, as an example), and I dont need to have played that game at the high end to form the above opinion. The only thing it has going for it are somewhat decent animations - meaning it *looks* ok. If you wish to disagree with any of the above, then let's talk. If not, why even reply?
Zyvan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Fact is, BDO combat is shit, it plays slow, it has stupid mechanics (modifiers to damage taken from specific classes, as an example), and I dont need to have played that game at the high end to form the above opinion. The only thing it has going for it are somewhat decent animations - meaning it *looks* ok. If you wish to disagree with any of the above, then let's talk. If not, why even reply? I bolded the portion I disagree with. I'd like to know why you think the game plays slow, because either A: You have not actually played the game and are making a baseless assumption, or B: You did play it, but not to the point of understanding how it works. If you have played BDO and truly believe it plays slow, I'd like for you to give me an example of an MMO that plays faster and also explain why you think BDO plays slow.
Noaani wrote: » To me, it plays slow because there is fewer actions per minute needed than in other games I play - including older games like EQ2. It absolutely LOOKS faster than many other games, but there is just not the need to press as many buttons as other games. This is why I said it plays slow, not IS slow. The animation is fast, and at times you need fast reactions, there just isn't the need for as many actual button presses as many other games.
Mag7spy wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is funny is i keep having to repeat myself, all those post talk about pve, hack and slash as in you are mindlessly killing tons of enemies. Its cleary they call it hack and slash because of the non existent pve content and how easy it is to kill mobs. And you are linking a bunch of articles from random game journalist that wouldn't even have gotten into the game to begin with more then a surface level. If you are posting game jurno reviewers as your point instead of explaining it you are being dishonest. I continue to tell you that is not how PvP works and its very mechanically heavy. If this is the sample you are bringing with you understand what im talking about with the game you simply don't know what im talking about, this post showing me that clearly. You continue to ignore what is actually being said because you dislike pve content when that honestly has nothing to do with the combat as it doesn't require you to have a deep understanding of it. Anyone can type in some keyword on the internet and have people explain things in a way they want to hear. Challenging content isn't pve if you only talk about pve with BDO you are not playing the game. Like you went out of your way to search for a few post with hardly any comments, video with no views in another language or journalist that don't even play the game really...Where are the creditable post calling it a hack and slash game at the very least. If you don't understand combat in relation to pvp there is nothing wrong with that but it also means you won't know the depth of the combat or understand what I'm talking about. So you shouldn't have a point saying its a hack and slash game with no rpg elements to it. I don't see customization on character build even on BDO'S level hack and slash games, or even the amount of skills you have. You don't know BDO, what even was your gear score....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjrSYuLP8X8https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-combat/ Are you trying to imply the combat is different for PvP and PVE? if you are figthing a mob and you can kill it with one skill without using any kind of depth the combat has be it chaining multiple attacks together, proper combos just running around as fast as possible one tapping everything. Yes the pve is going to be shallow and not feel good. Its like if you were to play any mmo where you my a build, but you can kill everything with your basic auto attack. You aren't having the proper pace of a pvp fight that the game was designed for, all mobs were not even secondary.
Noaani wrote: » Zyvan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Fact is, BDO combat is shit, it plays slow, it has stupid mechanics (modifiers to damage taken from specific classes, as an example), and I dont need to have played that game at the high end to form the above opinion. The only thing it has going for it are somewhat decent animations - meaning it *looks* ok. If you wish to disagree with any of the above, then let's talk. If not, why even reply? I bolded the portion I disagree with. I'd like to know why you think the game plays slow, because either A: You have not actually played the game and are making a baseless assumption, or B: You did play it, but not to the point of understanding how it works. If you have played BDO and truly believe it plays slow, I'd like for you to give me an example of an MMO that plays faster and also explain why you think BDO plays slow. To me, it plays slow because there is fewer actions per minute needed than in other games I play - including older games like EQ2. It absolutely LOOKS faster than many other games, but there is just not the need to press as many buttons as other games. This is why I said it plays slow, not IS slow. The animation is fast, and at times you need fast reactions, there just isn't the need for as many actual button presses as many other games.
SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is funny is i keep having to repeat myself, all those post talk about pve, hack and slash as in you are mindlessly killing tons of enemies. Its cleary they call it hack and slash because of the non existent pve content and how easy it is to kill mobs. And you are linking a bunch of articles from random game journalist that wouldn't even have gotten into the game to begin with more then a surface level. If you are posting game jurno reviewers as your point instead of explaining it you are being dishonest. I continue to tell you that is not how PvP works and its very mechanically heavy. If this is the sample you are bringing with you understand what im talking about with the game you simply don't know what im talking about, this post showing me that clearly. You continue to ignore what is actually being said because you dislike pve content when that honestly has nothing to do with the combat as it doesn't require you to have a deep understanding of it. Anyone can type in some keyword on the internet and have people explain things in a way they want to hear. Challenging content isn't pve if you only talk about pve with BDO you are not playing the game. Like you went out of your way to search for a few post with hardly any comments, video with no views in another language or journalist that don't even play the game really...Where are the creditable post calling it a hack and slash game at the very least. If you don't understand combat in relation to pvp there is nothing wrong with that but it also means you won't know the depth of the combat or understand what I'm talking about. So you shouldn't have a point saying its a hack and slash game with no rpg elements to it. I don't see customization on character build even on BDO'S level hack and slash games, or even the amount of skills you have. You don't know BDO, what even was your gear score....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjrSYuLP8X8https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-combat/ Are you trying to imply the combat is different for PvP and PVE? if you are figthing a mob and you can kill it with one skill without using any kind of depth the combat has be it chaining multiple attacks together, proper combos just running around as fast as possible one tapping everything. Yes the pve is going to be shallow and not feel good. Its like if you were to play any mmo where you my a build, but you can kill everything with your basic auto attack. You aren't having the proper pace of a pvp fight that the game was designed for, all mobs were not even secondary. Ok So the controls and skills still work the same. Just the game is built poorly.
Zyvan wrote: » Noaani wrote: » To me, it plays slow because there is fewer actions per minute needed than in other games I play - including older games like EQ2. It absolutely LOOKS faster than many other games, but there is just not the need to press as many buttons as other games. This is why I said it plays slow, not IS slow. The animation is fast, and at times you need fast reactions, there just isn't the need for as many actual button presses as many other games. Shift + LMB -> S + F -> W + F -> Hotkey of choice (1 button press) -> Q -> W + F -> RMB -> S + E -> Shift + Z. This was a non-optimized combo I used over 4 years ago. It could have included more button presses with a more optimized combo, but it wasn't always needed. Nowadays, combos are much more optimized and fit even more abilities in a short amount of time. And how long did it take for me to input those buttons? Less than 4 seconds. 15 button presses in less than 4 seconds, but if you want to say you meant ability uses and not button presses, then it's still 9 ability uses in less than 4 seconds. This is not accounting for camera rotations that need to be done as well. That comes out to roughly 4 (because it was under 4 seconds, most likely closer to 3.5) non-repeating button presses per second, or 2.4 per second if you only want to count only ability uses. Optimized movement for many classes requires the same APM, more or less, just depending on which class you're playing. If you don't move properly in BDO, you die instantly. So if you're playing with some degree of skill, you're pushing out over 200 button presses per minute very easily. Again, this is not accounting for camera rotations for micro-movements and ability placements in the middle of combos or movement chains. Are you implying EQ2 required more button presses per minute than that?
Mag7spy wrote: » @Zyvan And comparing to to the gameplay portion of this video.....Mashing a bunch of buttons doesn't really equal to speed or complex combat to me. Even if you remove skill last times and have all access to like the 50 skills and can use everything instantly that isn't fast gameplay. Its just whoever can type faster. Speed is yes skill use but all other elements as well movement and mobility, speed of your tracking with your cameras to hit targets, speed at which to react to other target, speed to predict and understand movements. Show anyone these two gameplays and its not even a question what people would rather play int his day and age. One has combat the other practically advanced is turn based.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKRXzoS5MuI&t=82s
Dygz wrote: » Yeah, I mean, without looking at BDO, it's impossible to implement Action Combat that has fluid combat or even "strong response time".
