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Previous Bad Game Experiences
TheDarkSorcerer
Member
What are your bad experiences with other game studios on products you love? I think it could be good for Intrepid to read what is causing other competitors communities to seek something better. (The very reason why we are all here and the excitement for this game).
Here’s mine:
I have played Elder Scrolls Online since launch on console. I’m one of the OG's in PvP who have spent thousands of hours in PvP. From being Emperor several times to gotten the Grand Overlord title before it was easy to gain Alliance Points. I have seen changes on changes on changes that heavily affects gameplay and combat throughout the years. The developers behind the game along with their current creative director have pulled lies upon lies each year about a coming performance fix that would improve server stability. That has never happened. And I am not even exaggerating when I tell you this same CD have said this lie every year the past 5-6 years instead of just being honest.
They introduce huge combat changes every 3-4 months. This is causing burnout for the community who need to start grinding new gear and material every quarter and learn a brand new play style. Zenimax also have a poor strategy of nerfing base game sets into the ground, simply to sell new DLC’s/Chapters that contain new powerful sets that creates the “new meta” to drive sales.
I have had so many wonderful memories in ESO and met some great friends along the way. But the relationship between Zenimax and their community is like a toxic, abusive relationship. The community still support ESO because they hope for improvement on a product they’ve grown to love. But it’s difficult to support a game you love when the developers neglect their customers and there’s no trust in between them. Their recent update 'Update 35' is a great example of this, the extreme catering to casuals.
Now, it does seem like Intrepid is the complete opposite from Zenimax. All I’ve seen so far is complete transparency with the development of this game. I also love the directness and honesty from Steven instead of other studios giving the typical corporate false promises.
Here’s mine:
I have played Elder Scrolls Online since launch on console. I’m one of the OG's in PvP who have spent thousands of hours in PvP. From being Emperor several times to gotten the Grand Overlord title before it was easy to gain Alliance Points. I have seen changes on changes on changes that heavily affects gameplay and combat throughout the years. The developers behind the game along with their current creative director have pulled lies upon lies each year about a coming performance fix that would improve server stability. That has never happened. And I am not even exaggerating when I tell you this same CD have said this lie every year the past 5-6 years instead of just being honest.
They introduce huge combat changes every 3-4 months. This is causing burnout for the community who need to start grinding new gear and material every quarter and learn a brand new play style. Zenimax also have a poor strategy of nerfing base game sets into the ground, simply to sell new DLC’s/Chapters that contain new powerful sets that creates the “new meta” to drive sales.
I have had so many wonderful memories in ESO and met some great friends along the way. But the relationship between Zenimax and their community is like a toxic, abusive relationship. The community still support ESO because they hope for improvement on a product they’ve grown to love. But it’s difficult to support a game you love when the developers neglect their customers and there’s no trust in between them. Their recent update 'Update 35' is a great example of this, the extreme catering to casuals.
Now, it does seem like Intrepid is the complete opposite from Zenimax. All I’ve seen so far is complete transparency with the development of this game. I also love the directness and honesty from Steven instead of other studios giving the typical corporate false promises.
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While I did enjoy portions of the game, it felt tedious setting up and optimizing Add-ons, macros and WeakAuras. I know Add-ons are technically optional but it felt like a handicap playing without them as they'd often drastically improve or simplify the game.
Why wouldn't I use an addon that adds resource locations to the map or extends my maximum camera distance? If these options don't break ToS and are accessible to players, why aren't they by default made available in the game.
I won't be returning to WoW any time soon, although not necessarily because of Add-ons, the game just felt very stale once my progress had been devalued by an update.
EQ2’s erosion by WoW
WoW’s sudden pivot to solo casual
RIft’s oatmeal graphics
ESO’s p2w
NWO’s p2w
MOII’s inability to scale performance
LoTRO’s lack of gameplay growth
FF14’s lengthy cutscenes interrupted by moments of actual gameplay
Destiny 2’s rinse-repeat-rinse-repeat-it’s-all-the-same-fireteam-content
The worst part for me was that it wasn't a one and done kind of deal, Add-ons would often need updating or they'd function incorrectly. I'd also find myself checking for the suggested add-ons and WeakAuras every time I attempted a new piece of content.
That rinse-repeat… I felt that!
Anarchy Online
Bugs, soooooo many bugs at release that weren't fixed quickly enough. The game had a great vibe to it though.
Dark Age of Camelot
The Trials of Atlantis expansion was the beginning of the end for me. It was a combination of the master levels and the relics in particular. I stuck with it for a while because of the RvR in the game, but in the end WoW released and hooked me. Mythic was ok as a studio about it, and realized their mistake, but too late for me.
World of Warcraft
Wayyyy too slow with the content updates and expansions. I came back to WoW three times, to try new content, but ultimately I stopped again every time because in the end I just got super bored with the endgame being nothing but a gear treadmill, grinding raids over and over without really having any new content for months and months at a time, and no sign that the studio gave a damn about the slow releases.
Black Desert Online
The RNG was so bad. Early on the P2W aspects were actually tolerable in scope, but what killed an otherwise fun game for me and most of my friends was the enhancement RNG. The TET and PEN roulettes. The T9 horse system was also bullshit. I quit before we could buy failstacks and fragments in the shop, which obviously would have made the P2W aspects intolerable. No matter how much we screamed at the developers, about how this design would kill the game for western audiences, they refused to listen.
I relate entirely to your experience with BDO's gear enhancement. I was sick of consistently losing large amounts of progress from failing an RNG check, so I tried getting more into the training lifeskill.
Unfortunately once I had my t8 courser ready for awakening I realized that it's an even worse RNG check than gearing, so I just quit.
To this day I know everyone in my guild hated that expansion and I just.... didn't get the hate. It seemed normal to me. But I was also way younger than my guildmates so maybe it was a generational thing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Lets say it again.....
Pay to win...... even when its just RMT and no punishments
IIRC, a large part of it was the shift in power balance between those with relics and master levels, versus those without. It made a huge difference in RvR as I recall. I am pretty sure there was more to it, but I honestly forgot the details.
ESO's over-reliance on Daily Quests to try and keep people playing. ESO's over-reliance on RNG-drops to try and keep people playing. And pointless nerfs for the sake of nothing.
This is a good topic too... i dont like games making sure i have enough chores to do so i have to log in.... just make alot of actual content. And let me do things as i find them. I dont need a weekly, 3 dailys, and a prime time quest...
The real lifeskilling is the npc items for silver we made along the way
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
1. Ultima Online- Bugs and exploits are what hurt this game. It was one of the first graphical MMOs and so bugs were going to be an issue. The PvP model is actually a bit similar to what AoC is attempting. I enjoyed being both a PKer and an Anti-Pker depending on the mood.
2. Dark Ages of Camelot- The PvE kind of hurt this game with Atlantis. That being said, it still has one of the best regional PvP systems ever made. This is the model I wish AoC could follow. Separate areas for PvP and PvE with some crossover. Also having a separate skill set for PvP was nice as it gave an added purpose for PvP.
3. Asheron's Call- Yeah I played this one. This game introduced actual terrain changes and seasons. The guild system acting like a pyramid was different. The way a player got spells was also unique and has since never been duplicated. The PvP was fun at times but there were a lot of exploits that people took advantage of. Having creatures and a world with it's own story was nice as well.
5. Everquest- The game that I still pick up and play every now and then. Community through need of having to have other players for raids and grouping was what set this game apart from the first 3. Age and graphics with a difficulty revolving around time and the need for others was why World of Warcraft came into its own. This game above all others is a game that I really with would get remade beyond Everquest 2.
6. Everquest 2- Generic combat that required hitting a lot of buttons. Despite having a phenomenal housing system, World of Warcraft was just easier and so more attractive to the common person.
7. World of Warcraft- The game that rose the bar for standards of play and brought the world into MMO's. Initially this game's design was incredible. It was smooth to play with an easy understanding for combat. Over time it stopped becoming revolutionary and started to just follow a rinse and repeat model with the occasional new feature. Legion was the last good expansion the game released. It went down hill from there. Fun fact, the game never really had a housing system. It did have bases that you could do some things in but it actually never released a housing system. Given that the game was the first to monetize things like pets and mounts, one would have thought that furniture and decorations for a house would have been a no-brainer for more profit.
There are many others not listed that I really did not play, or played for a very short time, from that era. I will list a couple of new ones I have tried.
7. New World- It would be a much shorter list to say what they did correctly with their release. It is widely understood that the game should not have come out when it did. It has since actually corrected many of the mistakes but at the cost of losing a lot of players who may or may not choose to return. First impressions are everything.
8. Lost Ark- Combat and raids are what set this game above most MMO"s. If not for these two enjoyable features, this game would not even merit discussion in a positive light. It's quest system is boring and generic to such a point that I had a difficult time doing it the second time. It is not Pay to Win but it certainly is a Pay to Win a lot easier. This is a familiar model that Korean games are known for(/Wave Black Desert). The game's world design is all over the place with set character models and very odd choices for clothing. As a character you can look very much like the warrior you want to be or you can wear a tuxedo. The other extremely large issue this game suffered from were BoT programs. When a game does a reset and you figure out that only 250k of the 700k are real players, the game has a problem. This problem still exists.
Every game has negatives that can be learned from. The problem arises when negatives are subjective. There is no way to please everyone with every system. What some players like, others might not. What a company can control are the objective problems. Servers and BoT control are two such examples. Hopefully Intrepid is ahead of the curve with at least those two problems.
Just to add to this, New World's Dev team not being able to code to save their lives due to the amount of bugs in that game. And the fact that it shouldn't have been released for another year at least.
And lets not just be negative.... new world was a nice fishing game.
The more I hear and see from Throne and Liberty the more comfortable/pleased I become.
For now, stuff with my crew in FFXI and Elite Dangerous will do, on the MMO side, Predecessor will be in Early Access soon on the MOBA side, and of course, the fighting games (basically if it's recent and not a Platform Fighter or Guilty Gear IV, I probably play it).
EDIT: Oh and of course BDO which I play precisely because it is one big 'Bad Game Experience', though I might end up stopping, hard to muster the will to even study it these days on the Console side.
I mean, i still play ESO because like my post "It's like an abusive relationship". And i can't seem to leave because in my opinion, there is nothing better out on the market!
As you know I'm much more willing to do 'deep analysis' of implications without needing to be absolutely certain about what a specific apparent mechanic or Developer statement 'definitely means'. So for me personally, from long analysis of their trailer, and coming from a background of FFXI, along with your 'Cliff's Notes' of L2, I can make certain inferences.
Also, I don't hate P2W, in case it's unclear, I hate 'uncapped P2W', so I don't have negative reactions to NCSoft's latest proposals/promises.
EDIT: Realized that I didn't really answer... we went through the latest few screenshots recently, loving the implications thereof. I think I like their visual style better than Ashes by a little bit.
That information was provided by NCSoft itself at some point.
Intention is Global release, on Consoles as well, no crossplay.
I'm personally expecting delays, bugs, and the Console versions being pushed back, as well as an 'absolute end of year' release date.