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Intrepid - Clarification on Freehold Cosmetics - an answer is desperately needed

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Comments

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    And, I fully agree that we need more info on all the cosmetics. We're not in disagreement on that point.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Telling people finalized information about items they have purchased, for legal reasons, NEEDS to be 100% accurate.

    To say something based on, this is what we intend. And then that to not be what gets FINALIZED. Will cause more problems then saying the 100% fact, You have to earn the base in game to use the skin.

    Similarly, selling a skin as a "Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin", and then a couple of years down the line coming back and saying "Actually, this is now just a Freehold Tavern Cosmetic Skin", means that you're changing the purpose of the item you've sold.


    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.

    @PenguinPaladin this is pretty much on point with the double edged sword I am seeing with this argument. One side says keep it vague so you don't promise something that you may have to go back on.

    BUT, withholding information which could still change its purpose, your argument is that it's better to withhold and go back but it's a loss both ways.

    Really, the purpose of this thread is for Intrepid to pull their thumb out and make a decisive decision on how it should work. I am more than certain they have had the time to determine how it should work and in Davey's example, if his skin is going to be limited in any way or if it can be used for all buildings (which it not being the case is the largest worry).
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Telling people finalized information about items they have purchased, for legal reasons, NEEDS to be 100% accurate.

    To say something based on, this is what we intend. And then that to not be what gets FINALIZED. Will cause more problems then saying the 100% fact, You have to earn the base in game to use the skin.

    Similarly, selling a skin as a "Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin", and then a couple of years down the line coming back and saying "Actually, this is now just a Freehold Tavern Cosmetic Skin", means that you're changing the purpose of the item you've sold.


    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.

    Is a tavern not a type of freehold building?

    Just like mounts.... if i bought a bear mount skin, and was hoping to use it as a muel, because in my mind a bear could potentially carry a lot. And then that particular skin goes on a combat mount, then i guess im out of luck...

    Im just saying they are all the same, and all need more info. But giving info that is not finalized is not something they should do.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    AidanKD wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Telling people finalized information about items they have purchased, for legal reasons, NEEDS to be 100% accurate.

    To say something based on, this is what we intend. And then that to not be what gets FINALIZED. Will cause more problems then saying the 100% fact, You have to earn the base in game to use the skin.

    Similarly, selling a skin as a "Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin", and then a couple of years down the line coming back and saying "Actually, this is now just a Freehold Tavern Cosmetic Skin", means that you're changing the purpose of the item you've sold.


    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.

    @PenguinPaladin this is pretty much on point with the double edged sword I am seeing with this argument. One side says keep it vague so you don't promise something that you may have to go back on.

    BUT, withholding information which could still change its purpose, your argument is that it's better to withhold and go back but it's a loss both ways.

    Really, the purpose of this thread is for Intrepid to pull their thumb out and make a decisive decision on how it should work. I am more than certain they have had the time to determine how it should work and in Davey's example, if his skin is going to be limited in any way or if it can be used for all buildings (which it not being the case is the largest worry).

    I agree with you, however, as this discussion is happening. People know to be uncertain about what the skins are in game. And there for the companies pov is, that the needed information to cover them is out there. And until they can finalize more information, this is the state of things. And they seem to be content with that.
  • edited July 2022
    @AidanKD
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Telling people finalized information about items they have purchased, for legal reasons, NEEDS to be 100% accurate.

    To say something based on, this is what we intend. And then that to not be what gets FINALIZED. Will cause more problems then saying the 100% fact, You have to earn the base in game to use the skin.

    Similarly, selling a skin as a "Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin", and then a couple of years down the line coming back and saying "Actually, this is now just a Freehold Tavern Cosmetic Skin", means that you're changing the purpose of the item you've sold.


    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.

    Is a tavern not a type of freehold building?

    Just like mounts.... if i bought a bear mount skin, and was hoping to use it as a muel, because in my mind a bear could potentially carry a lot. And then that particular skin goes on a combat mount, then i guess im out of luck...

    Im just saying they are all the same, and all need more info. But giving info that is not finalized is not something they should do.

    that's also what people are wondering if there are different types of free holds and if skins affect only specific ones or both. If someone wants to run an Inn/tavern, then that's different than a personal house one.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Help us, Vaknar-Wan Kenobi! You're our only hope!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • I'm guessing many of these skins in these packages can be obtained or similar ones acquired in-game much how the other cosmetics are. Many of them are themed of different cultures in-game and could be directly related to node development as well with how the nodes evolve.

    If not, I hope there are just as good if not better alternatives for players to earn in-game. It definitely seems like there could be different types of initial free-holds to expand on.

    If you alter your house into a tavern, does that not change functionality of that building? Considering a free-hold is a safe zone (assuming they havn't changed that), then would it be a public safe zone/conditional safe zone as people come to your tavern. It's more than just a cosmetic, it physically changes the structure/blueprint of the building in-game. Unless the concept arts have been vague and misleading with how those skins function and change the layout of the freehold.

    I can definitely see why people have no idea what they're giving money for. lol.

    With how many professions there are, I assume there will be plenty of expansive options to accommodate them, that should be a given.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.


    Graycage:
    Deep in the bowels of the twisted woods lies this formidable temple of the dark arts. Various sacrificial rites take place within the damned bastion, and not even the cries of the misfortuned escape its walls. It is here that the most vile of shamans lead their people, and it is only a matter of time until they decide to take a bolder approach with their schemes.

    If that only works on "Temples" and not "Taverns"...
    I think that's not a dev problem.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.


    Graycage:
    Deep in the bowels of the twisted woods lies this formidable temple of the dark arts. Various sacrificial rites take place within the damned bastion, and not even the cries of the misfortuned escape its walls. It is here that the most vile of shamans lead their people, and it is only a matter of time until they decide to take a bolder approach with their schemes.

    If that only works on "Temples" and not "Taverns"...
    I think that's not a dev problem.

    I don't think anything is necessarily a dev problem as this is all down to how information is supplied/conveyed - though I see your point with that description.

    What would you expect a temple to be used for in a freehold? To me I don't know any life-skill based implementations unless I am misunderstanding its purpose - I would expect it to have ties to religion though I wouldn't have expected that in a Freehold.
  • maybe they drink at worship :smile:
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would not expect a Temple to be used as a Tavern.
    I would hope the skin includes objects that allow us to RP something similar to the description.
    So, for this example, I would expect to see plenty of blood stains and torture racks and sacrificial altars.
    I would not expect to see a kitchen and a bar and booths for eating.

    In a practical sense -regardless of the specific Temple skin- I would think a Temple Freehold might be used to help with Religious Org related stuff the same way a Tavern can help with parlour games, ordering food and quests from the task board.
    "If a player chooses to construct a tavern or a business on their Freehold, they can offer food through that tavern and players who are visiting the area doing hunting quests can visit the tavern, eat food if it's available, and they will receive a buff that is proximity based essentially if they hunt around that person's business... Additionally that business can be upgraded through the access of additional blueprints as well as resources that need to be then poured into the building; and if they do so that proximity radius expands."
    ---Steven

    I would not be expecting to walk into a Freehold with a Graycage skin and RP that it's a Tavern.
  • @Dygz that's very interesting! So based on that, it sounds like things are going to be exclusive to purpose. Sill curious to how they imply constructing a business on the freehold. I wonder what the full spectrum of that implies for current and future goals and freehold expansion options via node progression directly vs indirectly.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    So, for this example, I would expect to see plenty of blood stains and torture racks and sacrificial altars. I would not expect to see a kitchen and a bar and booths for eating.

    Well, there may be some taverns in Eastern Europe that could expand your perspective… 🤪
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    I don't know that they are exclusive, but...
    I purchase Freehold skins expecting to RP them to be kind of similar to their descriptions, so...
    It seems odd to me that someone would purchase what's described as a Temple and be upset that they can't use it on a Tavern Freehold.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    When I saw the Greycage, it was just the look I wanted for my Freehold Tavern, so seeing that it was a Freehold Building Cosmetic Skin, I bought it, because I wanted to use the cosmetic skin on my freehold building. If it turns out that it's only for use on a different type of building and that I can't use it on my freehold tavern building, then that's not what was specified at the time of purchase.


    Graycage:
    Deep in the bowels of the twisted woods lies this formidable temple of the dark arts. Various sacrificial rites take place within the damned bastion, and not even the cries of the misfortuned escape its walls. It is here that the most vile of shamans lead their people, and it is only a matter of time until they decide to take a bolder approach with their schemes.

    If that only works on "Temples" and not "Taverns"...
    I think that's not a dev problem.

    So, if I came across a ruined temple that I wanted to call home, cleared it out and wanted to turn it into a tavern, I wouldn't be able to, cos it used to be a temple?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You might not be able to. And you should probably assume you won't be successful at it.
    I dunno why you would buy a Temple and then be upset that you can't use the Temple as a Tavern.
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Even a vague statement of design direction would be nice. Maybe they don't want to say specifics for each freehold skin, but a statement like "You may not be able to use your freehold skin if you don't have one of the requisite buildings on your property" would be a big help.

    But instead we're all here just making guesses.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    I support your post. I would love to start buying freehold skins again.
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    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Steven showed cosmetic shop mounts on stream many times, but he never showed freeholds from cosmetic shop. So hope we gonna see it.
  • We are seeing that there is direct financial incentive for intrepid here. People would be willing to pay if they knew!

    Combined with cosmetics being inaccessible after the month they are on sale, forever, if knowing the ins and outs might make you reconsider buying an old cosmetic, unfortunately you have lost your chance.

    And some people will flat out buy packs if they knew. I consider that the least important reason but no doubt it would be valuable to them.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Bored Bump, cos it's been asked sooooo many times......
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    I support your post. I would love to start buying freehold skins again.

    all-of-this-pointing.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • I did bring it up for the Q&A but yes I still think that for all skins that this applies to, Intrepid just need to pull their finger out and just nip this in the bud. I really don't believe they couldn't just at least say yes, the skins are restricted to specific freehold buildings types and you will/will not be able to have all types present on your freehold at any one time.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Caww wrote: »
    It is possible that many people will own a freehold cosmetic but will not be able to use it given how difficult it will be to attain the freehold itself and only one per account so only one skin at a time. Myself I'm a little intimidated by Stevens statement on the wiki and don't buy the freehold skins at all.

    "If a player wants to achieve a freehold they can achieve the freehold, however the amount of effort resources and time that's required in order to achieve that freehold is a large amount. It is something that is a monumental achievement for you to to get that freehold; and the reason why is because freeholds tie in very heavily to the processing artisanship aspect. Some processing can be done in nodes, but the best processing is done on freeholds; and we want to make sure that there's a little bit of a throttle or gate on the amount of effort that's necessary to achieve that influence over the processing market.[14] – Steven Sharif"
    Hmmmn. It's not one at a time.
    I'll post the relevant vid below, but...
    Freehold refers to a plot of land.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Freeholds
    Freeholds are sizable player housing plots that can be situated within the Zone of influence (ZOI) of a Village (stage 3) or higher.

    You can place several buildings on a Freehold.
    And there are different building types to choose from.
    So, you can have several types of buildings on one Freehold. Which means you could have several cosmetic skins on one Freehold.
    While you might not be able to place two taverns on one Freehold, you should be able to place a temple and a tavern on the same Freehold. Probably cannot place a temple skin on a tavern building.

    https://youtu.be/cqDjAzZ2gAQ?t=8067


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