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Mind Control
CROW3
Member
This thread is all about that awesome & frustrating crowd-control (cc) called Mind Control (MC). For the sake of ease, I’m going to use the 5th Edition definition of mind-control for the conversation:
Url: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mind_Control_(5e_Spell)
There have been a number of MC implementations out there. Personally, my favorite is WoW because it allowed me to fling annoying opponents from high ledges.
So - what are your thoughts on mind-control? Do you want mind-control to be an available spell in Ashes? If, yes - what are the effects and limitations? What classes do you think are best fit to have MC in their kit? What happens if I MC someone who is MC’ing another player? Can I MC a corrupt player and run him toward guards? Or a bounty hunter?
What are your experiences and how do those experiences shape what you would like Ashes to implement?
I’m curious. 🤔
You can try to control the mind of target within range. The target must make a wisdom saving throw. On a failure, you take total control over the mind of your target, making him nothing more than a mindless puppet…For the duration, the target is considered stunned, only acting under your commands.
Url: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mind_Control_(5e_Spell)
There have been a number of MC implementations out there. Personally, my favorite is WoW because it allowed me to fling annoying opponents from high ledges.
So - what are your thoughts on mind-control? Do you want mind-control to be an available spell in Ashes? If, yes - what are the effects and limitations? What classes do you think are best fit to have MC in their kit? What happens if I MC someone who is MC’ing another player? Can I MC a corrupt player and run him toward guards? Or a bounty hunter?
What are your experiences and how do those experiences shape what you would like Ashes to implement?
I’m curious. 🤔
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Id see the mage base class having it, and rouge augments changing the casting animation to be nearly silent, and similar to an idel animation.
And if its something that hard to actually manage to cast, i wouldnt mind you being able to give the mind controlled any commands you couod give a summon
So if I MC you, I’d have access to your whole ability bar? I’d basically be able to play as you?
Can the player casting MC have access to your inventory? 🙀
I imagine you couldnt aim an action skill for your summons, so you probably have access to assigning my target, and telling me to use my tab targeted abilities perhaps? Or just to fire off some cones without aiming.
I doubt a summon has an inventory, so i dont think you'd be able to access my inventory.
If MC ends up in the game... seems like a pretty "deep" spell to try and incorporate tho
I like this status effect a lot. It is a relatively uncommon, and has an unpredictable effect that requires a thorough set of tactical protocols, gear specing, and party composition considerations. I think it fits right in with ashes current combat design combined with their alpha 1 mob encounter design philosophy.
I am biased as a summoner though since smn and other pet classes tend to be the hard counter to this effect.
I am also biased because in the games I play with it, if everyone is charmed, nothing bad technically happens and people have easy access to reraise (albeit you rise weakened.) A game without those things would probably be really frustrating.
Bard and Summoner make great candidates for such an ability, but I would much rather it be mob/boss only.
I think it would suck as a PvP effect and require additional considerations relative to corruption as you mention. I think for the risk of exploitation of the corruption system alone that rules it out as a player ability in my eyes.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Most effective the first time it happened, decades ago.
Shouldn't give access to someone else's abilities. And shouldn't last long enough for another player to actually control someone else's avatar.
One of the main reasons i want in game voice chat is for easdropping spells, and voice throwing spells........... just kinda thought it kinda fits with blinds and fears
So I can’t MC you and blow all your CDs? 😳
What’s an appropriate duration?
Oo cool idea - probably more fun than watching your possessed toon start attacking your friends (or finding the nearest cliff). How challenging would that minigame be? E.g. are you trying to keep it rare for a player to ‘break out’ of MC before the duration expires?
Good thoughts, Vine. So, given the PvX nature of abilities in Ashes, how would you work player MC into the mix? For instance, let’s say you’re a powerful green, I MC you then attack and kill a brand new green. So you’re red. If I can do that before the spell ends…(big if) what if the corruption transfers entirely to me (the MC caster)?
It’s the most literal version of the Milgram experiment: ‘I was just doing what he told me.’ 😵💫
I think that is another reason why it does not feel so agency crushing in FFXI as well and another 'bias' I forgot to mention. I definitely think just a 'basic attack from your ally' has it's own element of threat, that can also be properly mitigate in a party situation. If the big tank is charmed, it hurts, but you probably are playing a class with better escape tools or cc options for 'not hurting your friend too much while they snap out of it'. If your mage is charmed, it probably hurts but more so because you aren't killing the mob as quickly not from the little tickles from their wand.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
I imagine that this would be very dangerous for a raid when an opposing guild MCs the main tank during a fight.
I wonder if it would be good to have some graphical link (say a golden thread) between the caster and the enslaved?
Visual cues should always be present for status effects in modern gaming imo. I think some of my team disagrees with me. I think not having them raises part of the skill floor without them though and charm/mc is already a high skill floor ability to need to deal with. I think I preffer parasitic mushrooms sprouted on their heads as the visual. Very jarring, obvious, lore approachable, and squicky in an immersive way.
I think there will be other ways to mess with a rival guilds tank. So I don't think mc is a must for that niche in combat.
That being said, it's still a thing you might need to deal with/can take advantage of if you are opposing a raid and it is being used by the boss. It'd be even more interesting if the charm effect favored targeting newer/not engaged people nearby to attack the those who engaged first.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Not sure if people want to do skill checks during combat though as interesting as it may be it can be quite the deterrence as well.
Interesting… why?
interesting. Usually mind controls are limited to time/duration, limited actions performed or a resource bar before it weakens connection that fills or empties based on contributing factors such as the ones mentioned.
As long as its not possible against players and bosses. Against regular mobs im okay with.
Do you mind if some mobs and bosses have it to use against players?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
And general MC things would be, no access to inventory, chat lists, stronghold. It should impact the character not the account.
We can use D&D mechanics here in a sense
You as the Sorcerer used Mind Control on a Cleric - You may know how to tap into the Magic, but you as the sorcerer dont understand how a cleric gets their spells and uses it. You dont have access to the divine power that the cleric knows how to use.
Therefor, Mind Control - you may get a barbarian and swng his big giant sword - but you dont know how to rage, Scream all you want - you cant control their feelings.
You as a sorcerer - you know how to RUN, but do you know how to be explosive, like a NFL linebacker aka the Warrior who dashes in with an incredible skill... you may have seen it 100 times, but you dont know how to tap into that.
You as a sorcerer Mind Control Rock Lee From Naruto - just like the warrior - you dont know how to tap into his chakara and go full ham.
you should be able to do Basic Combat, and basic low level skills. Cleave, Rend, Backstab, Taunt, Push, Block, Simple Spells, Bows. Hell I will give it to them, the ability to send someone pet perhaps, because he is using the MC player voice to command it. Unless flavor wise, AoC states in the description, the Druid/Ranger/Mages/necro has a psychic connection to their pets - then you shouldnt have access.
However, I have always liked abilities like this (EQ2 had charm that had this effect).
So, what I'd like to see is one or two classes with this ability, but when cast on a player, that player then has a mini-game of some description that they can participate in that will both limit the effect to using fewer abilities, and also reduce the duration of it.
That way, while the player may not be doing what they want in that moment in time, at least they are doing something productive.
No, there shouldn't be any instance where you're in control of my character. It's the complete removal of player agency. You'll make him a dwarf, or something else just as hideous.
Hahaha, did you play "Michael Jackson Moonwalker" on the Sega Megadrive? That was his special skill.
Also, I dont think anyone would want to MC your character considering how much you love Tulnar....................................
Being on the recieving end of a charm will be extremely frustrating. Are all classes going to have some form of CC break skill that will be a long CD? Will they introduce trinkets that have cc breaks? Idno tbh, has this been talked about at all? I'm not a huge fan of the trinket system.
If youve charmed a player and then someone charms you your charm should brrak though, I think thata fairly obvious.
I hope they do the enchanter similar to the EQ enchanter without the random charm break. That class was so useful in groups and could solo (EQ was primarily a group focused game).
Anyway I hope they do a great job with it.
It does seem something likely for Bard Active Skills. Possibly Cleric Active Skills.
But, yes... expect Passive Skills to have a tree that would mitigate the effects of mind control.