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Procedural generated instance/dungeon

KeypiKeypi Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Hallo :-)

I was wondering...

In the past 20 years i played alot of mmorpg, and the most dungeon management i saw was:

1 - 50 people do few dungeons all over again untill everyone gets the item they want.

It was a repetitive job in a same looking "repetitive" dungeon.

Does the Dev.Team maybe works on Procedural generated instance/dungeon?
So its still a repetitive job, but cause the hypothetical changes against other monsters, with other riddels and other tunels/areas to the bosses....?

Keypi :smiley:

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Allegedly Intrepid wants to avoid repetitive grinding, though I don't think we've heard how exactly they want to avoid it. Dungeons will be manually designed afaik, so you will learn their layout if you visit them often enough. But that layout might change, depending on the lvl of the node that oversees the dungeon.
  • SweatycupSweatycup Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We saw the footage of that one dungeon and for sure there was cliff faces with low hanging parts to navigate around. So it wouldn't be impossible to say things could change if that flat rock walkways changes downwards or upwards to change layout. But for sure, no clue yet. We do know however monsters and creatures will have a sense of intelligence to them that scale so a difference in this with a mix of different compositions of said creatures and monsters might help make things interesting. 80% of the dungeons will be open world so its hard to change that every time layout wise. However the instanced 20% would be neat to see changes overtime to them to keep you coming back. I do think also the open world will change but i do not know if they plan to change open world dungeon layouts completely but it may every now and again. The seasons and weather are the only thing i know so far that changes layout of the map. Seasons and weather will affect paths so the layout should technically change. However beyond weather and seasons i do not know but would be nice, yes.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Sweatycup wrote: »
    However the instanced 20% would be neat to see changes overtime to them to keep you coming back.
    Instanced stuff is not meant to be run multiple times, so I doubt this will be the case.
    Sweatycup wrote: »
    I do think also the open world will change but I do not know if they plan to change open world dungeon layouts completely but it may every now and again.
    Contents of the dungeon will allegedly grow with nodes, and considering that sticking 20 mobs in a room instead of 10 is not the best way of growing the size of content, I'd assume they'll go down the route of adding rooms and stuff.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Dungeons#Dungeon_content
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Don't forget that there will be hidden passageways which only some classes, with sufficient skill levels, can discover.
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    I asked a similar question which was answered on one of the livestreams. I specifically asked if like the divine metro's catacombs (which we are told will be procedural dungeons) would other content be procedural? And the answer was ~mostly not but some can be?

    Sigh ok let me just go find the clip. (Edit: not sure why it plays at a different time than shared but the question starts at 1:07:37)
    https://youtu.be/T_pi8uuOvCY?t=4058
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Some of the people out here have cyberpunk 2077 expectations and refused to think somewhat realistic. Between all the nodes, dungeons, etc they are going to add on top of all the other work. Some people actually out here thinking dungeons are going to be so random you can never predict anything and mechanics will completely change with everything being different all the time so no guides can be made.

    Expecting some change is fine with variation but expectations need to be kept in check as you need to see what they do or you are just expecting to let yourself down. Which doesn't help when people use it as a argument as well on what they will be doing, we don't know how things will work exactly until we see it working in game.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would like to see some narrow-scope procedural stuff. Changing up the hidden doors and passages for example. But unless they somehow manage to create a really kickass tool for it, I think handcrafted is better for the game.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Unsure if anyone has ever played warframe but it gets old real fast with generic and becomes heavily relied upon. It will be interesting to see what they do and can do though. I think this lends itself better to creating more difficulty though and unique challenges through the dungeon . Perhaps one time the bridge has a few mobs on it and some archers shoot fromt he side. Another time it has mages and archers that can knock you off the bridge where you die, a armored large troll and heavy shield defended to help block your path.

    As far as raid bosses and stuff generic mechanics are the most easy thing to create guides for and usually aren't the most complex in the world as well as feel generic. Hand crafted raids with some slight variations is better.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • ElderElder Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Some of the people out here have cyberpunk 2077 expectations and refused to think somewhat realistic. Between all the nodes, dungeons, etc they are going to add on top of all the other work. Some people actually out here thinking dungeons are going to be so random you can never predict anything and mechanics will completely change with everything being different all the time so no guides can be made.

    Expecting some change is fine with variation but expectations need to be kept in check as you need to see what they do or you are just expecting to let yourself down. Which doesn't help when people use it as a argument as well on what they will be doing, we don't know how things will work exactly until we see it working in game.

    It's been that way ever since the Kickstarter went public. Intrepid's open and public development often leads to a manipulated narrative or excessive expectations.

    I've been guilty of it myself more than a few times over the years. :#
    Which is the greater folly, summoning the demon or expecting gratitude from it?
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    Deep rock galactic does a ridiculously phenomenal job with procedural generation. By far the best I've seen but it relies on high freedom of movement.
  • RobtzuRobtzu Member
    I remember a dungeon in DDO that required you to split up the group and kill 4 minibosses within 30 seconds or so of each other. The particular 4 was randomly drawn from a list of 8 or so. I really liked that mechanic. You had to split up the group with some thought in order to get it done. I think that amount of randomization is achievable rather easily.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Looking for a random dungeon to work like a rogue like?
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    tbh i wanna see dungeon more akin to the old Everquest style dungeons, these were not 1 dimension normally and had many paths and area throughout the place were you able to go.
    WoW instances for example (Most mmo) is just one line from start to finish with bosses inbetween the paths, no branching paths or anything.

    like check out some of the old zones maps from everquest http://www.allakabor.com/eqatlas/atlas.html
    Some noticable zones maps
    • The Hole (high level)
    • Permafrost keep (Low to high level)
    • Solusk eye (Mid level)
    • Kurns tower (Low level dungeon)
    • Blkackburrow (Low level)

    The area feel more alive due to there more realistic nature to them instead of being 1 path you follow to the end like alot of the new MMO dungeons/instances
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    tbh i wanna see dungeon more akin to the old Everquest style dungeons
    , these were not 1 dimension normally and had many paths and area throughout the place were you able to go.
    WoW instances for example (Most mmo) is just one line from start to finish with bosses inbetween the paths, no branching paths or anything.

    like check out some of the old zones maps from everquest http://www.allakabor.com/eqatlas/atlas.html
    Some noticable zones maps
    • The Hole (high level)
    • Permafrost keep (Low to high level)
    • Solusk eye (Mid level)
    • Kurns tower (Low level dungeon)
    • Blkackburrow (Low level)

    The area feel more alive due to there more realistic nature to them instead of being 1 path you follow to the end like alot of the new MMO dungeons/instances
    That's pretty much what Intrepid is planning to do. Intricate open world dungeons.
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