Expectations for Expansions and patches

I know we may be getting ahead of ourselves with this line of guess-work and wishlists, but here I am doing it for you anyway.

So far we know that expansions will/may contain the following:

Larger expansions will add new content and increase various aspects of the game:

Increased level cap
New gear sets.
New zones.
New bosses.
New skill levels.
Increased power levels.
Gear upgrades.

New content will primarily be introduced through the node system. The goal is for existing content to remain relevant alongside the new content

Source: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Expansions

Increased level cap
I think this is pretty straightforward. No comment on my part.

New gear sets
Would you rather these be added to existing bosses or exclusively to the new bosses and raids? Obtainable through the leveling quests for artisans perhaps?

New zones
This is to me the most interesting part. How would we go about adding new Zones?
If we take games like WoW and FFXIV, new zones are usually added as big semi-instanced chunks to the existing map or by sending you to an entirely different map.

Now, with AoC aiming to be a true open world would you rather the areas be added to the existing map? Or be sectioned off areas? Would you be OK with an island or continent suddenly appearing in the middle of the sea where nothing had been there before?

Would these areas instead open up in places like mountain ranges where you could legitimately not get to before (even by the very rare flying mounts)?
Or would you see these as being new Underdark areas to explore the realms of the Tulnar further?

With the game indicating it will have a lower emphasis on an overarching storyline, how do you justify these new areas appearing? Is it just an: oh it's a new expansion so we got a new area without lore reasoning? Or would we require some big server wide event which leads to accessing said new areas?

For example: a large volcanic eruption takes place for a few months and players have to deal with its consequences and its origins (a few world bosses appears, weather changes etc). In the aftermath... *poof* new expansion! That eruption created a new area from the solidified lava.

New skill levels and Increased power levels
My only question here is: what is the difference? Are skill levels for instance a skill for a spear which now can level higher? And what power is the power level referring to?

New content will primarily be introduced through the node system.
So will the new bosses and raids etc only be attached to the nodes' development? Will new areas only appear within the node's zone of influence, like the catacombs Steven mentioned that one time?

Will Nodes obtain new levels of development?

If new land is added, I imagine those will also have nodes. Will this increase the amount of metropolis? Or will we never get new land areas?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions. I do but raise the questions.

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Comments

Happymeal2415

I generally don't understand increasing the level cap. Maybe it's just the way a lot of the current games work but I feel as though new harder bosses, new gear, new skills etc are easily introduced without the need for x level increase. It just causes old content to be worthless. Seems like it's something that's only around for companies to force you to buy the next expansion.

Caww

any approach that keeps the game fresh is fine with me

Asgerr

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I generally don't understand increasing the level cap. Maybe it's just the way a lot of the current games work but I feel as though new harder bosses, new gear, new skills etc are easily introduced without the need for x level increase. It just causes old content to be worthless. Seems like it's something that's only around for companies to force you to buy the next expansion.

Well expansions won't have a cost in AoC. They're free to download once released.

The expansion of level cap gives new incentives for increasing your stats and obtaining new skills, in a "justified" way.

Old content is supposed to remain viable as it is linked to Nodes and those will come and go with player action.

PenguinPaladin

I would like to see new zones added, and those nodes in the new zones having an exp growth reduction. The nodes themselves should develop slower due to being a new, presumably more hostile enviornment. Not every expansion, of couse. But i like the thought of a very harsh enviornment to be added. Permafrost tundra areas, active volcano islands with sulfur sea. That kinda thing, that would slow collinization.

Nerror

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I would like to see new zones added, and those nodes in the new zones having an exp growth reduction. The nodes themselves should develop slower due to being a new, presumably more hostile enviornment. Not every expansion, of couse. But i like the thought of a very harsh enviornment to be added. Permafrost tundra areas, active volcano islands with sulfur sea. That kinda thing, that would slow collinization.

Good idea. Or even a cap on node level in those areas. Keep them sort of frontier status.

AidanKD

I guess the real challenge is how can you add content without invalidating old content? That's the main issue with expansions. If you are able to add content and keep the original content relevant, then you are just making the world richer and richer.

But you also risk having TOO MUCH to do. That said, expansions aren't exactly an unsuccessful model, but you need a way to keep your veteran players enticed to play ideally.

Aerlana

level cap : honestly, not really a fan, it is a step to a pure vertical evolution, and i prefer have lot of horizontal.
Also leveling for a new game is normal, but then it becomes "leveling for leveling"
I would prefer a system inspired as the one in GW2 : once you are max level, the "leveling" goes to another part of character. Could imagine a system to "level" skills for example,

Zones : while it is not hard to justify with some good lore that evolve as time goes. (the world is living after all) and not hard to add islands, or ... portal to another plane ?
The problem is with node system i think. It will spread more and more players. it can become a problem.

Sengarden

Asgerr wrote: »

Well expansions won't have a cost in AoC. They're free to download once released.

Seriously? I've never heard that before. Do many other MMOs follow that model?

If we're not paying a box price for expansions, it's hard to say exactly what I'd expect from them. Perhaps instead of gigantic expansions, we'd just get regular medium-sized updates? New NPC organizations to interact with who have their own recipes to earn and questlines to do. New batches of dynamic events. New dungeons. New recipes added to loot tables. New treasure hunt maps to find. Maybe some post-launch systems that players have been asking for.

New zones could be interesting, but Intrepid have made their servers very large (8-10k pop logged in at a time), with the intention of that server population fitting just uncomfortably enough within the size of the launch-world to encourage node conflict. This balance begins to break down when you add more world space without increasing the already massive server pop limit. If there are eventually enough level 6 zones of influence for every major organized group of players to have their own ZOI, then there is no need for conflict. It would only occur at the whims of actively aggressive players. So that would be a pretty difficult area to expand upon.

The only way I could see it working would be for new regions to be "Expedition Territories" where there's no government, player housing, or castle ownership. It would have nodes, but they'd cap at level 2 for the sake of some player convenience with vendors and such. This would create some cool new territories for new creatures to be tamed, new items to be sourced from, new dungeons to exist, new bosses to spawn, etc. They could host some NPC civilizations that we can gain rep with, earn new items / blueprints from and make trade routes with.

PenguinPaladin

Sengarden wrote: »

New zones could be interesting, but Intrepid have made their servers very large (8-10k pop logged in at a time), with the intention of that server population fitting just uncomfortably enough within the size of the launch-world to encourage node conflict. This balance begins to break down when you add more world space without increasing the already massive server pop limit. If there are eventually enough level 6 zones of influence for every major organized group of players to have their own ZOI, then there is no need for conflict. It would only occur at the whims of actively aggressive players. So that would be a pretty difficult area to expand upon.

This is a good thought. Understanding population wants for the overall game. What if the "new zones" were implemented through catastrophic events. Its not that more map area was added, its that this certain area was destroyed/altered due to certain events.

Nerror

Aerlana wrote: »

level cap : honestly, not really a fan, it is a step to a pure vertical evolution, and i prefer have lot of horizontal.
Also leveling for a new game is normal, but then it becomes "leveling for leveling"
I would prefer a system inspired as the one in GW2 : once you are max level, the "leveling" goes to another part of character. Could imagine a system to "level" skills for example,

Zones : while it is not hard to justify with some good lore that evolve as time goes. (the world is living after all) and not hard to add islands, or ... portal to another plane ?
The problem is with node system i think. It will spread more and more players. it can become a problem.

Yeah I was a little sad the first time I heard Steven said he would increase the level cap. I was hoping for something different. Like you say, levelling some skills, for example.

And I agree with the problem of spreading people out more. On a low pop server that could be a real problem.

Sengarden

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

This is a good thought. Understanding population wants for the overall game. What if the "new zones" were implemented through catastrophic events. Its not that more map area was added, its that this certain area was destroyed/altered due to certain events.

That's a pretty innovative solution! Basically giving parts of the original world the Cataclysm effect from WoW. Though I can't imagine too many naturally occurring events that would lead to a drastic enough change in the environment for them to bother with that complex of a system. So I feel like they'd have to be magically influenced or something. WoW accomplished this via a gigantic dragon and elemental magic creating new sources of life springing up in deserts and areas previously under a shadow of death and decay, dams that already existed breaking and flooding old zones, that sort of thing. I think it could be done in Ashes, but it would need some lore tie-ins to avoid feeling gimmicky or forced.

Additionally, I don't know how the player base would respond to various zones which some will inevitably love and cherish being changed forever (or for a very long period of time) because of an event that was outside of their control. Might rub enough people in the wrong way for it to generally be considered a bad move. I know Blizzard still takes tons of flack over a decade later for creating a cataclysm once and then never updating it to show how things continued to change and resettle into a world that doesn't forever look like the cataclysm just happened.

Ransel

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Sengarden wrote: »

New zones could be interesting, but Intrepid have made their servers very large (8-10k pop logged in at a time), with the intention of that server population fitting just uncomfortably enough within the size of the launch-world to encourage node conflict. This balance begins to break down when you add more world space without increasing the already massive server pop limit. If there are eventually enough level 6 zones of influence for every major organized group of players to have their own ZOI, then there is no need for conflict. It would only occur at the whims of actively aggressive players. So that would be a pretty difficult area to expand upon.

This is a good thought. Understanding population wants for the overall game. What if the "new zones" were implemented through catastrophic events. Its not that more map area was added, its that this certain area was destroyed/altered due to certain events.

To add on to this, I've seen some MMOs have server requirements for new content.

Like an "expansion" is available, but the players on the server have to meet certain conditions to unlock the new content.

Edit.. I mean like unlock the content server-wide, and not just for an individual player.

Sengarden

Ransel wrote: »

To add on to this, I've seen some MMOs have server requirements for new content.

Like an "expansion" is available, but the players on the server have to meet certain conditions to unlock the new content.

Are you referring to population size requirements? Or server-wide accomplishment requirements?

MaiWaifu

Rather than introducing new zones or areas which can spread player numbers thin or making arbitrary new level caps to treadmill players. I think it would make more sense for expansions to introduce new node types / factions / races instead.

This introduces it as a more player driven content and each server will still experience content differently. Some players won't want their cities to get torn down to be transformed into the new thing so it'll be interesting in how it works.

If AoC wants to add "expansion level" content, I think the way it is introduced can't mirror the way that currently exists because of the node system and each server having it's own history.

Ransel

I was referring more to acccomplishments.

I've seen talk of a dynamic game world, so that would fit well with that design concept. Content can become available or unavailable depending upon conditions in the world.

mcstackerson

I'd hope more for horizontal changes than vertical ones. More social orgs, religions, classes, races, items, etc. I don't think expansions can function like a lot of the themepark games we are used to since they usually invalidate the old content with a new area. Instead, i think they should focus on making updates to the area we are already in.

Sengarden

Ransel wrote: »

I was referring more to acccomplishments.

I've seen talk of a dynamic game world, so that would fit well with that design concept. Content can become available or unavailable depending upon conditions in the world.

I see. The primary reason I'd disagree with this is that we're inevitably going to have some servers where there are highly organized/dedicated/skilled guilds pursuing top level content at an exceptional pace, and other servers that are lagging behind or pursuing more horizontal content. The players on the server with the highest performing guilds will get access to that new content because they have more highly skilled peers, am I understanding that concept right? Even if some of them weren't instrumental in helping the server meet those requirements. So less populated realms won't get to experience new content at the same time as higher populated realms. Seems a bit dicey. But maybe I misunderstood your position?

Sengarden

MaiWaifu wrote: »

Rather than introducing new zones or areas which can spread player numbers thin or making arbitrary new level caps to treadmill players. I think it would make more sense for expansions to introduce new node types / factions / races instead.

Even though I think adding new zones (even just for expedition type content) would be fun, I agree that it would inevitably thin out the population of the server. So, at any given time, you'd see less people concentrated in the same zones they were a year before [New Island] was introduced. Even if players aren't living in these new zones, it would still be giving players reasons to spread out more, which negatively impacts the level of player interactivity in any area.

Introducing new node types would be cool, but I can't seen to figure out how they'd do it without producing absolute chaos. You wouldn't want to have an existing node suddenly change its type, and you wouldn't want to publicly reveal at launch which nodes are now the new type. So, if an existing node is now a new type, you'd probably have to have it destroyed before it re-spawned as the new type. I feel like this would just start a server-wide free-for-all with people blowing up each other's stuff and setting the world on fire to find out where these new nodes are. I don't think they'd be able to just plop down new nodes on the map either, or else each untapped node's ZOI for initializing would become disproportionate depending on where the new zones made the old, balanced layout more congested.

New NPC factions for sure. Or are you referring to the introduction of some sort of player faction alignment system?

New races are always fun, but without new zones being introduced for wherever those races hail from, it would be a bit weird to try and explain new races popping out of nowhere. Even if it was by magic, that excuse can only take you so far.

Sengarden

mcstackerson wrote: »

I'd hope more for horizontal changes than vertical ones. More social orgs, religions, classes, races, items, etc. I don't think expansions can function like a lot of the themepark games we are used to since they usually invalidate the old content with a new area. Instead, i think they should focus on making updates to the area we are already in.

My main concern with leveling up and (specifically) adding new items to the game within the same zones would be introducing new resources. Are new types of trees, herbs, food, and animals just magically appearing in places we've already been? Might feel a little weird, I don't know.

mcstackerson

Sengarden wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

I'd hope more for horizontal changes than vertical ones. More social orgs, religions, classes, races, items, etc. I don't think expansions can function like a lot of the themepark games we are used to since they usually invalidate the old content with a new area. Instead, i think they should focus on making updates to the area we are already in.

My main concern with leveling up and (specifically) adding new items to the game within the same zones would be introducing new resources. Are new types of trees, herbs, food, and animals just magically appearing in places we've already been? Might feel a little weird, I don't know.

I don't see why you would need to add new resources.

I think a lot of content could be added to the world with things like the ancients as well as the concept of the underrealm. Things can either rising up from the underrealm, come down like the ancients, or just be woken up/reactivated. There will also be a lot of room in the ocean to add content.

I'd prefer them to not add higher level content that invalids everything. If more progression is made available, i'd prefer something like the champion system from ESO that gives players a way to continue to progress but doesn't scale up the content.

I think it would be weirder to make a world then create an expansion that invalidates everything in that world.

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