Public Test Realm servers. Yay or Nay?

One interesting tidbit that came from the July livestream was that Alpha 2 will be a persistent world, existing up to the game's release. But not only that: Alpha 2 servers will become the Publi Test Realm servers.

Now, PTR is in theory a good thing to have people's feedback on new content and to balance it before release. At the same time, a number of former WoW players may tell you that a PTR is in fact a wonder-killer. That once the newt PTR patch is out, in the span of a day or two, the entire next patch/expansion is basically spoiled for everyone.

Those who engage in the PTR, will also have acknowledge advantage over those who decide to not interact with it or just don't have time for it.

Will there be a meta of the big sweaty try-hard guilds forcing their raid groups into the PTR so that once the new Raid Boss comes out in the live servers, they can be Server First?

Other games like FFXIV have never had a PTR, keeping all of their secrets close to the vest. It is however true that FFXIV is a far more narrative driven game, and spoilers would ruin the near totality of the experience.

So in your eyes and from your personal experiences; PTR: Yay or Nay ?

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Comments

bloodprophet

I vote no for the reasons you stated.

Halae

I think a PTR is useful and smart to have, but NOT if it's a publicly available thing anybody can pull information from. In my opinion, it should be restricted to a small number of restricted individuals who can provide testing and criticism without spreading information of what's going on in it around.

If that small testing base that wouldn't spread information to everyone is impossible, then I say no PTR.

George_Black

Ye for obvious reasons, when the game goes live, Test servers should come live only when the Devs need them. Not for players to test builds.

unknownsystemerror

I think you are worried about a very small niche of what Ashes will be. Removing their ability to test effectively by limiting the tester pool works against everyone. There are also assumptions that Ashes will be some sort of themepark, line em up, get access to your raid sort of experience like WoW or others with curated content. Another thing is the intended pace of development post launch. The schedule is for monthly smaller updates with larger quarterly. Not testing those in the weeks leading up to their implementation could end up having serious issues down the line for Intrepid. Make a small group of chestthumpers mad cause "Envious spent a week unlocking the very specific set of circumstances that will work to trigger that event! No fair! My server should have had that option before them! Waaaahhhh!" is short sighted at best and is a much more desired result than "Those PI testers under NDA cbfed to test this latest content drop, there was an economy breaking bug in it, sorry, we have to roll back the live servers two weeks."

Savic Prosperity

I think only a hyper focused public test realm would be the furthest i'd want as well since discovery is kinda the name of the game for me doing content

I'm not really sure though overall since each game is different for what having extra information out can be like

FuryBladeborne

I'm not sure if a permanent PTR is a good idea. But I am sure that its not going away. Access to the persistent Alpha test server turning into the PTR after launch was a promised benefit from backing the Kickstarter at a $150 and above package.

"Alpha 2 will remain active in a persistent state till launch, then will become our Public Test Server."
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios/faqs
(From the question: What to do the different Alpha and Beta phases mean?)

Warth

Asgerr wrote: »

One interesting tidbit that came from the July livestream was that Alpha 2 will be a persistent world, existing up to the game's release. But not only that: Alpha 2 servers will become the Publi Test Realm servers.

Now, PTR is in theory a good thing to have people's feedback on new content and to balance it before release. At the same time, a number of former WoW players may tell you that a PTR is in fact a wonder-killer. That once the newt PTR patch is out, in the span of a day or two, the entire next patch/expansion is basically spoiled for everyone.

Those who engage in the PTR, will also have acknowledge advantage over those who decide to not interact with it or just don't have time for it.

Will there be a meta of the big sweaty try-hard guilds forcing their raid groups into the PTR so that once the new Raid Boss comes out in the live servers, they can be Server First?

Other games like FFXIV have never had a PTR, keeping all of their secrets close to the vest. It is however true that FFXIV is a far more narrative driven game, and spoilers would ruin the near totality of the experience.

So in your eyes and from your personal experiences; PTR: Yay or Nay ?

Pretty much agree with you. PTRs are good in games like MOBAs, detrimental to the experience you have in MMOs.

Takes away the sense of wonder and discovery upon launch. Tight lipped till release of the content + inhouse testing is the best way to go. FFXIV shows, that this is possible and positive effects it has.

If a PTR, then use it for testing systems, not content. Testing content never is a good idea.

Asgerr

[quote="Warth;c-352721"If a PTR, then use it for testing systems, not content. Testing content never is a good idea.[/quote]

I think you have probably found the perfect middle ground for it yes.

As we know FFXIV is great because the internal testing is very strong. But it's also a much more solo player experience with little social systems requiring testing.

So testing the systems, even if it's not with the exact monsters/nodes/locations/ where they will appear in the game, is probably better than just throwing an entire raid area and boss at the players in PTR and then watch the raid be completed in 1 day once it reaches full release.

Without much narrative involved in the game, we're at least safe from story spoilers.

Schmuky

I dont really understand this threat tbh.

So you want to have no testing of a new patch before it goes live? In a persistent MMO world?

You know, I played a game that did that recently. It was called New World, where every patch broke either the economy, or the balance, or the weapons or the quests or something.

A PTR is absolutely necessary. More than in any other game. If a game like PUBG puts out a patch that breaks the game for a few hours, no harm done thb, the games that happened in those 3 hours are gone. If a patch in an MMO goes live with a bug it can ruin a server for months, even if it is fixed the next day.

If you are sooo afraid of spoilers (even though what you said about it being spoiled in the first 1-2 days still applies to when the patch goes live, but whatever), do what Sea of Thieves is doing, have the testers sign an NDA. If they break it, ban their live account. Easy.

Mag7spy

You can test things without showing all new content in the game, simply testing what you want and what is important. Of course if there is a new boss that has stages that kind of stuff shouldn't be ruined by players showing up with test gear and allowing them to figure things out before its released in the game. Testing certain things should have different weights ie something that could brick the world should be tested, if its a boss that can be tested internally.

Asgerr

Schmuky wrote: »

I dont really understand this threat tbh.

So you want to have no testing of a new patch before it goes live? In a persistent MMO world?

Well there are some games that manage to do that internally without the need for a PTR. A PTR is almost entirely a Blizzard thing.

A ton of other MMOs and multiplayer games don't have them and still work wonderfully well.

My issue isn't so much the spoilers, as you say, because I also note that AoC is not remotely as plot driven as other MMOs. Thus spoilers aren't as much of an issue.

However, in races to world or server first, I do personally believe that it is far more interesting to have players go in blind on the day of the content's release. If people have already run defeated a raid boss a couple of times before the content is released, the only "difficulty" is then relegated to a potential third party coming in to screw with you.

I think testing of core systems and mechanics can be done on a PTR if there must be one, but finished content and bosses, should IMO stay hidden and be tested internally.

Schmuky

No. You think that because people get to test a boss in PTR, what, they will know the mechanics? they still need the gear on live in order to fight it.

And the second it goes to live, there is gonna be a YT video about the mechanics. So whats the upside of pushing untested content out?

Asgerr

Schmuky wrote: »

No. You think that because people get to test a boss in PTR, what, they will know the mechanics? they still need the gear on live in order to fight it.

And the second it goes to live, there is gonna be a YT video about the mechanics. So whats the upside of pushing untested content out?

I fail to see what gear has to do with this. Top level guilds and raid groups will always be geared with BIS or close to it for whenever the new content will drop. So literally gear is a non factor. Knowing the mechanics ahead of those who don't decide to test the boss, is an insane advantage in server first races (I think World might be harder, considering the dependence on node progression).

There are a myriad of WoW content creators and players out there that also note how the existence of PTR robs the actual raid of any value, because by the times it's out in the live game, it's already been farmed on the PTR.

Plus, you incur the "risk" of guilds forcing people to play in the PTR to then join in the raid groups. "Oh you haven't pre-learned all of the mechanics in the PTR? Sorry you're not in the raid team this time."

I don't think what I'm saying is disingenuous. If other companies can manage to test things internally and have them come out functioning well and presenting a challenge to people, why should Intrepid be any lesser?

Mag7spy

There is 0 reason why a new boss should be on a PTS that should be tested in house to make sure tis working and balance as intended. If something bugs out with it that shouldn't brick a server either so less importance for that to be on a PTS.

Yes guides will be a thing once it's beaten doesn't mean guides should be out before the content is on the live server with people knowing the best way to kill it ahead of time.

Asgerr

Mag7spy wrote: »

Yes guides will be a thing once it's beaten doesn't mean guides should be out before the content is on the live server with people knowing the best way to kill it ahead of time.

One could even argue that if your group figures out the mechanics and is able to farm the boss, that you could perhaps keep the guide/secrets hidden from others to further cement your own position at the top of the server, as well as keeping a temporary monopoly on the materials dropped by it.

Other guilds may try to spy on you fighting the boss to try and learn the way to beat it, which could have its own consequences if the raid group fighting decides to have other members stand guard etc.

Ludullu

I dunno if this kind of thing would be a good test of the mechanics/features, but I feel like some good ol' rng could help alleviate any worries.

Have the bosses in random places on the PTR instead of their designated nodes and give those bosses randomized new abilities (if there are any new ones). The people wouldn't know which nodes to level up before the new patch, they wouldn't know which boss has which abilities - all while still testing if the overall boss AI works fine and whether the abilities work properly.

In other words, separate the core of the content from the final version of the content. If that's possible and if it would achieve the goals set for the test itself.

YeOldeSmith

No from me, but it may be the only way they can effectively test their game before a large release. PTR for a game like WoW doesn't make much sense because they make enough money to afford support staff, but they don't because of corporate. Ashes will probably need PTR, but whether it does or not depends on how good the game does I think. Steven will undoubtedly not want it because he likes his secrets.

Mag7spy

Asgerr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Yes guides will be a thing once it's beaten doesn't mean guides should be out before the content is on the live server with people knowing the best way to kill it ahead of time.

One could even argue that if your group figures out the mechanics and is able to farm the boss, that you could perhaps keep the guide/secrets hidden from others to further cement your own position at the top of the server, as well as keeping a temporary monopoly on the materials dropped by it.

Other guilds may try to spy on you fighting the boss to try and learn the way to beat it, which could have its own consequences if the raid group fighting decides to have other members stand guard etc.

Them getting an advantage before its live on the server is the whole point on being bad. They shouldn't have an advantage before it goes live on a server, bosses don't need to be on PTS and should be tested internally.

Holtium

Yay

MaiWaifu

Everyone jumping to conclusions that it'll be a 1:1 replica of what will be pushed to live. Until it's released we don't how how it's going to function.

It might not even be anything interesting like raids or dungeons. It might just be simple stuff like - when a player interacts with x quest item does it work as intended?

Even if it's actually new enemy mechanics or encounters; you might just be fighting a generic red blob in PTR and they'll throw in 10 different attack patterns to see how players react or see if the damage numbers make sense. No guarantee any of it will identically be pushed to live.

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