My guess is that there is money in the game?

I don't recall ever hearing anything about currency in the game, but if there is I will say... get ready.

I am so hyped for this game. Everything I've thought about an MMO having, things i have begged for and gave big long detailed descriptions about on WoW forums, AoC is implementing. Unbelievable really..

But there is one thing that they have to have, or rather not have, currency. Gold buying, bot farming, i dont care what you say there's no way around it as long as there is a currency in the game. Just look at runescape, they go to incredible lengths to detect and ban people yet still,players have found ways around it.

Without currency, huge item stacking, and having a limited trade window the price of goods will be so unstable and obfuscated that there will at least never be a huge IRL market. It'll be too risky.

The monumental lengths groups will have to go through to get top tier gear will ensure it'll always have a high demand so I imagine even that wont become an IRL market.

As long as there isn't some global drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and a limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be very few people farming things to sell for IRL money.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Liniker

there will be gold in the game and trading is allowed, gear is not character bound, they have been working on the economy for over 6 years and hired multiple people to do that, there is 0% chance they would take your suggestion

there will also be gold sellers and buyers, and RMT will happen, it is what it is, they will try to make it harder by banning buyers and sellers and having active GMs, but won't stop all of them.

Asgerr

Noaani

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

As long as there isn't some drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and the limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be VERY few people farming things to sell for IRL money.

If there is no real currency, and no artificial currency, what are people farming?

PherPhur

Liniker wrote: »

there will be gold in the game and trading is allowed, gear is not character bound, they have been working on the economy for over 6 years and hired multiple people to do that, there is 0% chance they would take your suggestion

there will also be gold sellers and buyers, and RMT will happen, it is what it is, they will try to make it harder by banning buyers and sellers and having active GMs, but won't stop all of them.

It won't even stop a fraction of them. The game seems like it's built to be market heavy like Runescape, they will abuse the living shit out of the system, custom scripts, new accounts, by the droves. Runescape manages this okay though because it's pvp is bollocks and hardly relevant at all.

AoC's wpvp on the other hand... It's going to take an insanely massive toll on the fun of the game, i'd say moreso than any other game I can think of.

I figured that was the case though. Some things are already too baked in.

Huge missed opportunity, maybe next time.

George_Black

It's been discussed. Search the forum for more opinions on the matter.

PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

As long as there isn't some drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and the limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be VERY few people farming things to sell for IRL money.

If there is no real currency, and no artificial currency, what are people farming?

Items? Items don't automatically become artificial currency, the way those goods are gotten and the market has to dictate that.

If they cannot, then it remains just an item. AoCs very dynamic world and it's wpvp do a lot to prevent that from happening, but combo'd with low stacking of items and a limited trade window it would GREATLY reduce the chance of something, if anything, becoming a replacement for standard currency.

PherPhur

George_Black wrote: »

It's been discussed. Search the forum for more opinions on the matter.

Thanks mate

Noaani

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

As long as there isn't some drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and the limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be VERY few people farming things to sell for IRL money.

If there is no real currency, and no artificial currency, what are people farming?

Items?

Are you not aware that RMT websites also sell items, not just currencies?

PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

As long as there isn't some drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and the limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be VERY few people farming things to sell for IRL money.

If there is no real currency, and no artificial currency, what are people farming?

Items?

Are you not aware that RMT websites also sell items, not just currencies?

Some of the best items won't be able to be farmed and sold due to the sheer difficulty and group effort i'd imagine. Also for what price?

If you can obscure the price so much that the markets unstable, a lot of people aren't going to invest their time and effort into trying to make IRL money off of it, people have bills to pay. The worlds dynamic enough that 1 person might farm for weeks to get things to sell at a certain price and then another person is given a rare advantageous position to undercut them and so that person wasted all their time for nothing.

I think most of these people have bills to pay, a risky market is not the place to do that.

Also, can nodes be looted if they are successfully sieged? If so then by the time the cheaper items get sold from your competitor you might have lost your entire stock. It won't just be the case that you live in Indonesia and can sell at the cheapest rate because the cost of goods/services in your country is so low, it'll be the case that your fellow countrymen are able to undercut you even further because something happened in the dynamic world to give them easy access to something you're selling(at the bare minimum you could to pay the bills).

I don't know, I think it's a problem that needs to be tackled from many angles. Just rolling over and saying "it is what it is", is just sad. And thinking that GMs or bot detection software alone is going to handle the situation to any acceptable degree is naive.

This game, more than any I can think of, will be heavily effected by RWT if it's allowed through.

Noaani

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know, I think it's a problem that needs to be tackled from many angles.

On this point you are correct.

However, literally destroying the games economy is not one of those angles.

If players are able to trade with each other, and are able to know the value of items, then so too are RMT sites. If RMT sites are not able to trade, then players are not able to trade.

Since you referenced it earlier, PoE is a great example of this. The economy has currency items, but they are so complicated that many players simply do not trade at all (GGG introduced SSF tags to the game to support people that simply didn't want to get in to trading).

RMT sites still operate in that game though.

By obfuscating aspects of a games economy, you will always lock your players out of that economy before you will lock RMT out of it.

Elder

This may be the worst take I've seen in a while.

Removing the gold currency would destroy this game. Think about how deeply it would effect AoC's designs and concepts.

Nodes and castle taxes, real estate, player owned businesses and tavern games, economic nodes and their many systems, merchant npcs, player to player trading and the artisan supply chain.

Mag7spy

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/53100/intrepid-should-be-careful-on-taking-everyones-feedback-and-here-is-why#latest

Warth

Weekly soothsayer thread #7,946

"Change this or the game will end up ..."

Talents

Oh boy, another person that found out about the game 2 days ago and is trying to change the core features of the game. From what I can tell this dude doesn't want an open economy nor does he want open-world PvP, basically 2 of the main pillars of AoC.

You know you're in for a good post when someone says

Everything I've thought about an MMO having, things i have begged for and gave big long detailed descriptions about on WoW forums

Another WoW player thinking he knows what's best for MMOs.

Mag7spy

PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I don't know, I think it's a problem that needs to be tackled from many angles.

On this point you are correct.

However, literally destroying the games economy is not one of those angles.

If players are able to trade with each other, and are able to know the value of items, then so too are RMT sites. If RMT sites are not able to trade, then players are not able to trade.

Since you referenced it earlier, PoE is a great example of this. The economy has currency items, but they are so complicated that many players simply do not trade at all (GGG introduced SSF tags to the game to support people that simply didn't want to get in to trading).

RMT sites still operate in that game though.

By obfuscating aspects of a games economy, you will always lock your players out of that economy before you will lock RMT out of it.

A player doesn't know the value of an item inherently, it gets fleshed out over time by many factors. Obfuscating that value completely wouldn't be fun, if even possible at all, but I'm just going to be real up front and honest right now and put it out there..

Currency is fucking boring, soulless(sp? lol), drain on a game in every aspect. Forgive me if this sounds preachy but there's a reason Jesus Christ himself said "if you love God you hate money".

Bartering is WAY more fun and either people don't understand this because they've never experienced it or they're addicted to getting rich(which money helps facilitate).

Removing currency just helps curb RWT, it doesn't get rid of it, but it has numerous other benefits as well.

On the note of PoE, orbs take place as currency and do a good job because they are on a global drop table for 1, for 2 they stack high and only take up 1 inventory slot, for 3 they are always being consumed, and 4 they have many tiers of rarity to serve as change, similar to pennies, dimes, nickels, ect. Making no item on a global drop table doesn't really subtract from a game that much, making things not stack to the moon or limiting trade windows size isn't that intrusive(players can just trade up, i.e. trade for something a little bit better and a little bit better if they're trying to trade their way into something rare by starting with a bunch of basic materials. plus it adds a cool game in and of itself). The other things you can't change without really affecting the game negatively.

And I wouldn't say they're really complicated or confusing, it's just that the items come with so many different modifiers its hard to determine the worth of something. The actual worth of the orbs or whatever on their own are pretty static.

PherPhur

Talents wrote: »

Oh boy, another person that found out about the game 2 days ago and is trying to change the core features of the game. From what I can tell this dude doesn't want an open economy nor does he want open-world PvP, basically 2 of the main pillars of AoC.

You know you're in for a good post when someone says

Everything I've thought about an MMO having, things i have begged for and gave big long detailed descriptions about on WoW forums

Another WoW player thinking he knows what's best for MMOs.

Classic WoW is what I mainly play. Is there something wrong with thinking the only hope for the future of MMORPGs is going to come from Blizzard forking off the most successful MMORPG of all time?

I came here to discuss a clear and real threat to not just AoC, but to pretty much every MMO in existence.

If you've got a better idea on how to tackle the issue of RWT then please share, cause I think every single one of us but the P2W players are against it. And OSRS is living hardcore proof that bot detection, GMs and reporting falls so unfortunately short of handling the situation, despite the MONUMENTAL effort that's gone into it using those methods.

Noaani

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Forgive me if this sounds preachy but there's a reason Jesus Christ himself said "if you love God you hate money".

Not sure if preachy is the word, but totally ignorant perhaps may be. Why would I care what some fictional character has to say on anything?

You may as well be quoting Jack Sparrow here - in fact, that would be preferable.

As to the rest of your point - as much of a point as it is - you're just wrong.

Once again, if players can trade, RMT sites can trade. After all, most RMT sites are literally just made up of players.

As such, removing the notion of currency from the game literally does nothing at all to prevent RMT.

PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Forgive me if this sounds preachy but there's a reason Jesus Christ himself said "if you love God you hate money".

Not sure if preachy is the word, but totally ignorant perhaps may be. Why would I care what some fictional character has to say on anything?

You may as well be quoting Jack Sparrow here - in fact, that would be preferable.

As to the rest of your point - as much of a point as it is - you're just wrong.

Once again, if players can trade, RMT sites can trade. After all, most RMT sites are literally just made up of players.

As such, removing the notion of currency from the game literally does nothing at all to prevent RMT.

Man he(or the people who wrote the words, it doesnt matter) said things that sparked a movement so big, so revolutionary that it completely changed the entire world, arguably more drastic than anyone ever in history. So yea, I'd at least take what he said with maybe a little more grains of salt than some pirate from a fictional movie for the intended purpose of being entertained.

RWT is mostly made up of people from countries who's economy are so poor that they can farm on the game and make a living wage. Even on playerauctions dot com the main hub for players to sell their items or gold from a game is almost entirely overrun by these people, they dominate the market, for the reason i just stated.

It doesn't matter if they can trade like players can trade, removing trading is way more of a con than a pro. The point is utilizing mechanics or ridding the game of mechanics to make it so that most people trying to make a business out of it can't. What's sad is that AoC is pretty much set up for this(not on purpose i'd imagine), they'd just have to make a few tweaks to the game i mentioned and they'd be golden.

Like i said, people have to pay the bills. I have a friend from Indonesia that's a gold farmer for WoW and he recently just quit because despite boosting people for several hours every day, due to just a few hiccups he couldn't afford to pay his bills with the money he was making. This happened a few times until he just quit, the income was too wishy washy.

PherPhur

Mag7spy wrote: »

How do I become as strong as you master? One single image and the RWTraders have been crippled to but a mere glimmer of their former glory.

Child Item