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Taming vs Animal Husbandry

I'm curious, if taming is under the gathering artisan class, and animal husbandry under processing... How are you supposed to get the animals for breeding? Buy from a tamer?

The animal husbandry wiki states, "Pets, Mounts, Livestock, and Beasts of burden can be captured and tamed to breed animals with specific genetic traits." And their development update on Febuary 25th, made it sound as if the tamer would be doing the husbandry. Was this an oversight?

Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Right now, we have no solid details at all on it. All we can do is speculate.
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 2022
    31e1b25c63c8f2830e41987bfcc1c4ac.png

    Artisan classes allow a player to specialize in one or more of the following skill trees.[2]

    What I am understanding dont quote me you might be able to do both, but only one will be a "master" so you can be a "tamer" and a "animal husbandry". Depending on what you choose for your "master" there will be limits to what you can do with the other.

    Example

    you choose taming for "master" you can now "tame" a tiger, but if you were to want to breed that tiger that might not be an option, because its only for "master breeder's"


    Reason why I believe this
    0aa7e6458f309310dbaa81ebdd1b1d67.png

    When it comes to balancing a system that's something that we do during testing phases. When it comes to architecting the system itself and identifying the areas in which certain certain professions excel, where they interact with ancillary systems, their interconnectivity across the artisanship system as a whole, the important part there is to identify how that the interconnectivity lives with the other professions in the artisanship system. And what type of reliance you have on particular professions to complete the path of crafting or introduction of new items into the economy.[1] – Steven Sharif


    The whole idea behind theses 3 different path's are to make players connect to each other instead of one can do all

    We will get more clear answer's when testing starts.
  • UnderdelveUnderdelve Member
    edited August 2022
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited August 2022
    Yeah it looks like you will be required to purchase domesticated (tamed) creatures in order to do animal husbandry. Similar to how in Albion Online you have three steps, getting an animal from the wild or broker, raise it into a domestic adult, then train it for combat/riding. I dont think we will need to catch baby animals in ashes, but the process will most likely be similar.

    now an exception could be rare drops from animals that give you raiseable eggs or babies, but we will have to see if they want something like that.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2022
    Judeth wrote: »
    I'm curious, if taming is under the gathering artisan class, and animal husbandry under processing... How are you supposed to get the animals for breeding? Buy from a tamer?

    The animal husbandry wiki states, "Pets, Mounts, Livestock, and Beasts of burden can be captured and tamed to breed animals with specific genetic traits." And their development update on Febuary 25th, made it sound as if the tamer would be doing the husbandry. Was this an oversight?

    Just like a high tier smith will have to get their ingots from a high tier smelter, who in turn will have to get their ore from a high tier gatherer. No one character can do everything alone. It's to make sure players have that interdependency in the game, and that trade flows. So yeah, buy from tamer.
  • Judeth wrote: »
    I'm curious, if taming is under the gathering artisan class, and animal husbandry under processing... How are you supposed to get the animals for breeding? Buy from a tamer?

    The animal husbandry wiki states, "Pets, Mounts, Livestock, and Beasts of burden can be captured and tamed to breed animals with specific genetic traits." And their development update on Febuary 25th, made it sound as if the tamer would be doing the husbandry. Was this an oversight?

    Tamer catches + sells

    Breeder buy + breeds (+sells)

    Same as the other professions
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
  • Warth wrote: »
    Tamer catches + sells

    Breeder buy + breeds (+sells)

    Same as the other professions

    I just find it interesting that in their dev update they were saying that the breeder themselves would go out and tame the creatures to then breed. Plus mentioning a journaling type of AI specifically for the taming and producing of critters. So I'm wondering if it might be an oversight.

    While it does make sense for "taming" to fall under gathering, and I do fully support the player dependency for professions... Here I feel, when it comes to animal husbandry, taming should faller under the same tree. Or possibly that animal husbandry should be it's own artisan class. But, this isn't a stance I won't bend from.

    The qualms I have, is that it feels like them being under separate artisan paths (disabling a character to both tame and breed), could cause major annoyances unlike with other professions.
    Taming, on its own, can be pretty boring. People who would choose to do animal husbandry, most likely want to be able to do both as to be fully immersed animal lovers. I can't see a miner or herbalist go, "Oh I see a cute animal over there, let me go tame it." But I can see a breeder go, "I need better traits for this beast, let me go with my guild into the mountains so that I can find a new breed."

    Not to mention, it could likely cause an economic imbalance between the two professions. Considering how breeding is meant to work, bred creatures with better stats will be worth a vast amount more that just the stock versions found in the wild - whose use outside of breeding would be as byproducts... And why would a processor need to buy the entire creature? That would eliminate the need for hunting... And if you could get higher quality materials from well bred livestock, that also implicates a market imbalance (possibly for both tamers and hunters). Now that I think of that, hopefully breeding won't affect the material quality. I'll stop going down this rabbit hole.

    Note: they would still be fully dependent on other players for gear and feed for livestock. Especially if animal husbandry were its own parent path.

    That would be my justification for that.

    Definition of animal husbandry,
    "Animal husbandry is the branch of agriculture concerned with animals that are raised for meat, fibre, milk, or other products. It includes day-to-day care, selective breeding, and the raising of livestock."


    I don't remember correctly... But I believe in the video I linked Steven mentioned something about this profession having different sub categories that can be mastered. Example, breeding vs livestock.

    Thinking on it now, this is a very packed profession that I expect a lot of thought will need to go into.
  • We might be able to kill two birds with one stone and allow tamers to sell to alchemists, then the alchemists can test away on different species. Good sink for those creatures when the pet / mount market becomes saturated.

    I guess if you're working with a bezoar, you could literally kill two birds with one stone.
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  • Natasha wrote: »
    Torc wrote: »

    Only Breed!?

    *Blushes*
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It might let you do half and half, as well.

    I think that quote, along with some other one that I don't remember, means it might work closer to what I'm used to.

    So:

    50 skill Points to reach Master Tamer.
    50 skill Points to reach Master Breeder.

    Only 50 skill points obtainable.

    Spend 25 in each to get 'Professional Tamer + Professional Breeder' and exist without the ability to Tame the hardest targets or Breed the best outcomes. Dependent on others still, but capable of doing some things they can't or being more efficient at certain things.

    Above is all speculation based on how it works in other games I play.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • I might note, I feel like we're missing a step here. If Taming is a type of Gathering, wouldn't it make sense to split the ranching into Breeding as a Processing skill and Training as a Crafting skill? Then it'd track with all the other types of professions we have present.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Halae wrote: »
    I might note, I feel like we're missing a step here. If Taming is a type of Gathering, wouldn't it make sense to split the ranching into Breeding as a Processing skill and Training as a Crafting skill? Then it'd track with all the other types of professions we have present.

    Maybe they consider Cooking the crafting part, and animal husbandry includes Butchery ;)
  • Halae wrote: »
    I might note, I feel like we're missing a step here. If Taming is a type of Gathering, wouldn't it make sense to split the ranching into Breeding as a Processing skill and Training as a Crafting skill? Then it'd track with all the other types of professions we have present.

    i think u got a point but its kinda reversing the cycle becaue u would go from capture a creature (gather) to train it (manufacture) and than breed it (process) because u need ur creature trained to be able to fully see its potential and ind than find a potential mate for it to enhance a certain trait or to make it more balanced for the type of use u need it for.
  • mobtekmobtek Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    My Py'rai alt tames and sells to my Empryean breeder ;)
    Tamer catches + sells

    Breeder buy + breeds (+sells)

    Same as the other professions
  • Judeth wrote: »
    I'm curious, if taming is under the gathering artisan class, and animal husbandry under processing... How are you supposed to get the animals for breeding? Buy from a tamer?

    The animal husbandry wiki states, "Pets, Mounts, Livestock, and Beasts of burden can be captured and tamed to breed animals with specific genetic traits." And their development update on Febuary 25th, made it sound as if the tamer would be doing the husbandry. Was this an oversight?

    From what I'm understanding from Steven and his vision of limited mastery is that we need to buy from a master tamer. This will promote a stronger economy since we will have to rely on others more than ourselves. Hopefully we have an even number of people mastering various jobs or we will be screwed.
  • WHIT3ROS3WHIT3ROS3 Member
    edited August 2022
    What is the situation regarding the more traditional Hunter/Gatherer type role? Are animals able to be killed and "skinned" for their hide/meat/bone? If so, I feel like Tannery and Butchery are missing from the 'Processing' tree. O
  • WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »
    What is the situation is regarding the more traditional Hunter/Gatherer type role? Are animals able to be killed and "skinned" for their hide/meat/bone? If so, I feel like Tannery and Butchery are missing from the 'Processing' tree. O

    The list is knowingly incomplete. Those were just the ones named as examples back in the day
  • Lets hope that in the upcoming Q&A there is a bit more insight into this. But, as a few have already mentioned, the vision is to rely and/or do commerce within the community so there can be a fluent economy (hopefully thriving).
    Go 50% on Tamer and 50% AH and have a manageable (relatively quick) ROI .. or put all your marbles deep into AH and get that investment later on by providing the rarest, best quality products... How will that compare with the crafting professions?

    It will all come down to how far one can go into the various trees (Gathering/Processing/Crafting) to be able to do what we each had envisioned.
  • How Hunting (Taming) and Animal Husbandry Intersect:
    My understanding is that Taming is a subset of Hunting, meaning you would choose hunting as a gathering profession and you would then select inside of Hunting to improve your taming ability. As you can be a Grandmaster in 2 professions, you can choose Hunting (Taming) and Animal Husbandry. Then you can find new bloodlines and rares to put into your breeding program. I see this as being the usual route for Animal Husbandry enthusiasts.
    I can also foresee that they will encourage other professions to go well with either Hunting (Taming) or Animal Husbandry. One doesn't necessarily have to have the two obviously complementary professions. Perhaps professions that could be made to complement Animal Husbandry are a crafting profession that builds large equipment that only large animals move (caravans, engines of war), armor/equipment for animals (carpentry specific for buildings, equipment, and items used in Animal Husbandry), and farmer. Hunting (Taming) has many other professions that could be made complementary such as Alchemy (ingredients), cooking (ingredients), Tanner (skins/furs), Farmer (animal farming). Don't forget that you can have a master level in some of these other side professions, almost as good as Grandmaster.
    Also, I would assume that any animal training done by a Hunter (Tamer) would not be as strong or cannot be as focused as an Animal Husbandry Grandmaster's ability to train (since taming is a subset of a Hunter and a hunter's primary objective is hunting, not improving what was caught).
    ~~Zilola, WOW
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