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Before I get too Excited, PVP\PVE by Choice?
Orobahn
Member
My question is, will pvp\pve be separated? Or will this be a forced pvp game?
From some of the videos I have been watching, it looks like you will have to pvp to maintain your housing. Is this the case or will there also be pve housing that is just where you go for some buildcraft?
Is the game open world pvp too, or can you choose to do some immersive questing or relaxing gathering without being ganked? Sometimes I like the intensity of pvp but I am a much bigger fan of immersive content.
Before the hardcore types get too judgy, I like the idea of a massive world with content to suit a large population so that the MMO-world feels beyond immense. Im not sure why developers have decided to cater to one small aspect of a game when this only leads to creating a game that seems small and finite, in both what a player can do in the game and how long the game can hold players' attention spans.
I have never had long queues for WvW, Arenas, or Battlegrounds so I never understand why developers are willing to lose such a large amount of revenue from players who do not want pvp, or only want to pvp on their terms.
From some of the videos I have been watching, it looks like you will have to pvp to maintain your housing. Is this the case or will there also be pve housing that is just where you go for some buildcraft?
Is the game open world pvp too, or can you choose to do some immersive questing or relaxing gathering without being ganked? Sometimes I like the intensity of pvp but I am a much bigger fan of immersive content.
Before the hardcore types get too judgy, I like the idea of a massive world with content to suit a large population so that the MMO-world feels beyond immense. Im not sure why developers have decided to cater to one small aspect of a game when this only leads to creating a game that seems small and finite, in both what a player can do in the game and how long the game can hold players' attention spans.
I have never had long queues for WvW, Arenas, or Battlegrounds so I never understand why developers are willing to lose such a large amount of revenue from players who do not want pvp, or only want to pvp on their terms.
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No safety except in one case that you must work quite heavily to get in the first place.
The Creative Director of the game would like to be unique and achieve a dream moreso than make more money.
You can be forced into PvP at basically any time. If you have questions about that, there's lots of resources to check, but 'quick version answer' is yes, if you have gathered items and I want them, I will kill you and take them.
a basic example, in my mind, would be pve people ask pvpers for security, or escorts of caravans. pvpers can have pveers crafting gear for them in return, etc etc.
Not a perfect example, but hopefully you get my point. While it is a PvX game, it has been stated many times that there will non-pvp oriented ways to progress thru the game, and have an actual impact on the world just the same.
In the games defense there will be a system in place to minimize random murder
idk if it matters to you when you're addressing this type of post but this isn't convincing, and neither is 'there appear to be half PvEr and half PvPer claims.
It's just a numbers thing, Doves and Hawks, etc. The experience of players who don't want forced PvP is negatively affected by even 10% of the population being willing to kill them for any reason, far less resources.
Just noting that you're probably not as likely to convince anyone this way now that people have had these experiences for years (as OP seems to have).
Now I definitely understand and agree with your point here, but I do think the mechanic might change some people's minds, if they try it out.
Some yes, but in my limited game psychology experience, those people are not going to make the same complaint/post as the OP.
That's a response (to me) to people who 'start to complain the corruption system won't work'. Not those who 'want flagging'. Their goals are different.
you arent forced to do anything. everything is optional.
you can choose to pve and fight mobs, or just chop trees, mine rocks or stay in town all day.
you can choose to attack other players, or not
and if you get attacked, you have choices. you can choose to die like a b...fight back or run away
There will be a corruption system to curtail how often it happens and to introduce risk and potential loss to the killers.
You can read more about the system here.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging
Sounds like you aren't the target audience for the game to be frank with you.
Trying it just takes 15$ for a month. So you can just wait and see if you like it upon launch
Less excitement is usually a good thing
I'm typically not an aggressor in open world PvP though, so maybe my perspective is flawed 🤷♂️. Either way I'm excited for this game even if I have to wait years to play it.
I believe there will be some form of assessment available, though not to the point where you will know exactly all gear they have equipped nor the abilities they may have at their disposal to defend themselves. I am uncertain if character level will be included in the assessment. It could be that you may be able to ascertain character level based on the tier level of the gear they are wearing.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#Threat_assessment
But I agree, some "Fog of War" helps make such encounters more tense, and, for me, more fun
So knowing my target's rough strength would be much better than going in blind. But as Torc linked, that will already be the case in Ashes.
That is a great perspective to have, but I'm afraid not everyone sees it as a challenge as you do. However, being subscription based does make the chances of the community be stronger and I can see more people having the same stance as you. I love the idea that it is true open world PvP because it makes the game just that much more immersive, but I feel that in most MMO's people abuse that information about levels/gear. I do like that you can ascertain info about a target, but it doesnt give you exact info, and it shouldn't. I'm sure we will see more info in the future.
But did the weak people drop 25-50% of their stuff?
I think the best thing about the PvX systems they have going so far is that if you’re primarily a PvE player and don’t want to engage in one-on-one PvP, or just want to be generally safer in the open world... just get involved in the community. Join a guild. Talk to people. Make friends. Go out and do things together for safety in numbers.
Too many people play MMOs expecting a single player RPG with co-op lobbies for more PvE content. You’re not actually changing the world with your community, you’re just playing an interactive movie that’s being spoonfed to you. While there are games that do this well and are quite popular, this is a game with a strong foundation of community involvement and community consequences. You will join a segment of that community and live in a dynamic world together on shared terms. It will be unlike any MMO experience you’ve had before, I can guarantee it.
Has nothing to do with how many other people are involved in PvP combat - with you or against you.
It's about not wanting to participate in PvP at all when PvP is the last thing you want to be doing in the game at that time.
And, yeah, in Ashes, even when you are adventuring or harvesting completely solo, you are still contributing to changing the world and the community of Verra.
I'm still reading about the PvP rules myself. How does it work if you DO fight back, do they not go up in corruption? I would assume the ACT of attacking someone gains you corruption, not per se if they fight back or not.
I mean... You're definitely an easier target if you're just by yourself. If being killed from time to time is inevitable, and an event OP seems to want to avoid as often as possible, they might as well make it happen less often by making themselves a less attractive target, yes? I'm not so much suggesting they get involved in group PvP as an alternative to solo PvP, merely suggesting that an organized group is less likely to attract rogue murderers than one person out in the world alone.
I think I see where you're coming from though, in that by joining a large group instead of being alone, you're also theoretically "signing up" for group PvP at some point, which is a whole other can of worms apart from being ganked in the woods, and can potentially be more of a delay than just being ganked and walking back to your spot. But the loss of goods is manageable if you and a group of people put some effort into being attacked less often and choosing to be stronger together than you each are alone.
Either way, yes, corruption will limit the amount of unsolicited open world PvP going on at any point in time, and your impact on the world will still carry weight whether you choose to pursue PvE-centric activities alone or with others.
A person who is attacked can choose to fight back and flag as a Combatant. No Corruption is accrued when a Combatant is killed.
So, no...attacking someone is fair play. Killing a Non-Combatant is severely penalized.
That will depend on what you're carrying on you.
If you fight back you reduce the amount of lost materials and other death penalties by half. So, whilst you could "screw" them and give them corruption, you will also have to gauge whether you're OK with dropping a percentage of your stuff, or if you'd rather reduce that.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
A non-combatant (green player) who dies suffers normal penalties, which include:
A combatant (purple player) who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the rate of a non-combatant.
In an MMORPG, it's very likely I'm going to be killed from time to time - in a variety of ways.
The OP wants to avoid being forced into PvP combat as much as possible.
In Ashes, Corruption is the primary deterrent for unwanted PvP combat...ganking.
Who gets killed is not necessarily even a relevant factor. PvPers assume that the concern is jut about being killed in PvP. They don't seem to be able to fathom that some people just don't want to have anything to do with PvP combat when they aren't in the mood for PvP combat. Doesn't matter who wins or loses.
Remaining a Non-Combatant increases the risk for the attacker - and greatly the death penalties for the attacker if the attacker kills the Non-Combatant. You make yourself a less attractive target by remaining a Non-Combatant. That also makes that PvP encounter end as quickly as possible.
I think it just doesn't matter much whether I'm with a group.
Could be there is a rogue PKer roaming about hunting soloers.
Could be there is a group of PKers roaming about hunting groups.
Whether I get ganked solo or while in a group - my best option to avoid being forced into unwanted PvP combat is to remain as a Non-Combatant.
Corruption and the respawn mechanics are the primary features that minimize the loss of goods.
And, in an RPG, Strength is not the only attribute available for us to rely on to avoid being attacked.
With how crafting oriented ashes is going to be won't the lower levels still be worth something if you steal a chunk of mats?
I also disagree with this perspective @NiKr, because it's lowkey saying something very negative for the game, I think.
It is pretty hard to find a logical path that doesn't end up at:
"People who are lower level or weaker in PvP skills will have less of an impact on the game individually."
It's the only way I can see 'not having valuable resources' to be true, even with resource tiers. And since, for example, you never really know if that person on a shore is a high level Fisherperson , your incentive, particularly if you have an aquatic mount, is to hit-and-run them.
Coastal fishing is going to be extremely interesting because of this, from both the attacker and defender sides... or alternately 'people who aren't great at PvP/high enough level won't really get to fish much'. That's fine, risk vs reward, and fishing communities are among the easiest to protect, rather than attack, but... yeah.
I think one particular element of Ashes that will help to prevent "ganking" from being as frustrating as it can be in other games is that (if I'm not mistaken) "stealth" in this game isn't full invisibility like it tends to be in other MMOs. Whenever I'd play on a PvP server in WoW, for instance, I never minded when someone would come up and try to get at me. If they caught me not looking around in a potentially dangerous area, shame on me. But nothing ever made the experience of getting sapped and having half my health taken away in 2 seconds by a completely invisible rogue any less mind-numbingly frustrating.