Possible Caravan Attack Workaround?

I think it’s interesting that “Anyone may loot the caravan's wreckage.” I’m assuming that after the caravan is destroyed the pvp zone disappears meaning combatants that were say non combatants outside the caravan zone would revert. I would hire a non combatant to grab my stuff if the caravan is destroyed and attempt to run back to the city with it. If the attackers, kill the player, half the resources from the wreckage would drop but they would also go from a combatant to a corrupted. This creates a chance for them to drop gear upon death. Even better I’d ask a bounty hunter to also follow the caravan so he can immediately go after the now corrupted player in exchange for him taking any profit that drops from the attacker.

On one end I’m posting this because. if it worked, I would feel cool but on another end I think this may discourage attacking a caravan, which I know is a big feature of the game. Basically, if what I said above can be accomplished, you may want to adjust how large the caravan pvp zone is around wrecked caravans and have it remain for longer to ensure attackers have time to kill anyone running away with their hard earned loot.

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SaltyOnigiri

Cool! I’m planning to be Py’rai so I’m hoping the antlers will have a lot of customization options. I think depending on how they look, I can totally get behind weird nature deer elves. Plus I’m a sucker for the Py’rai architecture. I can definitely tell the antlers aren’t everyone’s speed though. I’d be nice if we can have the ability to position them a bit higher on the head.

tautau

A few thoughts to toss into the mix:

-If the defenders of the caravan are all killed, they lose, we know that. But it is probable that many of the attackers of the caravan also died. Maybe the fight is 20 vs 20 and the attackers lose 17, three surviving, and all dead respawn too far away to run back. Three surviving attackers can't carry much.

- Isn't the caravan PVP zone a 'non-penalty area' so those who die don't lose experience, etc.? Or am I mis-remembering that?

- If the caravan is hiring mercenary PLAYERS to help defend, the caravan master will have to tell them when to be at the departure point. But a wise caravan master will certainly not tell anyone (even guildies and node citizens since there will be spies) the Route of the caravan or the Destination. Sure, roads are fastest, but through the mountains might reduce possible ambush sites, deserts might increase visibility, rather than take the direct land rout go to the beach and hop a boat, and there is always the possibility to go through the Underworld caverns. In other words, finding a caravan won't be easy if you are dealing with smart folks.

- Speaking of those spies, tell the new guy in the guild that the caravan is leaving at 3 PM when it really leaves at noon. Then after 3 check the route and see if the new guy set up an ambush. If he did, then that dude is KoS forever.

- The smart caravan master will have a line of mounted scouts out ahead of the caravan wagons. If they see an ambush up ahead, the caravan can take a different route, or the guards can go ambush the ambush. You should have the scouts ahead of the caravan AND another group of scouts start at the destination and sweep the road towards the caravan. Have flankers and a rear guard as well.

- Ten minutes prior to the caravan leaving your node, send a scouting party out of the gates and start scouring on both sides of the road. The wrong road. So, if spies are trying to scout out your route, they are fooled.

- One big caravan or three small ones? I would consider the three small ones, with two of them being full of cheap garbage and one with the valuable stuff.

Man alive, this game is gonna be fun. Yeah, I got a lot more ideas, but I am only putting the obvious ones out here.

SongRune

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

Cool! I’m planning to be Py’rai so I’m hoping the antlers will have a lot of customization options. I think depending on how they look, I can totally get behind weird nature deer elves. Plus I’m a sucker for the Py’rai architecture. I can definitely tell the antlers aren’t everyone’s speed though. I’d be nice if we can have the ability to position them a bit higher on the head.

Well, do be sure to give your feedback in the appropriate thread. There should be one of those (former) sticky "[Player Feedback Request]" threads for Py'rai.

SaltyOnigiri

@SongRune good call. Will definitely check it out. I know on y’all’s side there’s a few people advocating for glowing eyes. Not sure if you want that. I’d probably say it can be an option but not the standard if your trying to stick with a more traditional elf.

@tautau I’m so hyped for this. I didn’t even consider the idea that turncoats within your guild might be in cahoots with attackers. There’s some very smart business decisions in that comment that can make or break a successful caravan trip.

SongRune

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

@SongRune good call. Will definitely check it out. I know on y’all’s side there’s a few people advocating for glowing eyes. Not sure if you want that. I’d probably say it can be an option but not the standard if your trying to stick with a more traditional elf.

I'd absolutely take it. I want a subtle, not a "beaming" effect though. Same with luminous hair.

SaltyOnigiri

That sounds cool! I love the idea. Only problem is it would make my decision on which character to main way harder.

Dygz

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

I think it’s interesting that “Anyone may loot the caravan's wreckage.” I’m assuming that after the caravan is destroyed the pvp zone disappears meaning combatants that were say non combatants outside the caravan zone would revert. I would hire a non combatant to grab my stuff if the caravan is destroyed and attempt to run back to the city with it. If the attackers, kill the player, half the resources from the wreckage would drop but they would also go from a combatant to a corrupted. This creates a chance for them to drop gear upon death. Even better I’d ask a bounty hunter to also follow the caravan so he can immediately go after the now corrupted player in exchange for him taking any profit that drops from the attacker.

IIRC, there is a time window before the dropped loot is lootable by non-participants, but, yes... Non-Combatants who are friends with the defenders can pick up some of the loot.
Attackers could take the risk of trying to kill Non-Combatants. Sure.
None of that is a work-around. It's all fair play.
Could be that Caravans will be a draw for Bounty Hunters. Yes.

Dolyem

I like everything thats being said here.

Another concern is release upon death and distance you are respawned. I would hope for caravans that respawns would be far enough away that you cant jump back into the fight over and over. I would say the easiest fix for this if the devs wished, they could make you unable to release from death until the caravan raid is over. Or depending on how exactly the mechanics work, attackers and defenders have to wait a bit longer to release to get back to the spot. Otherwise if attackers can continuously respawn and run back to join the attack, I dont think any caravans are going to make their journey successfully.

SaltyOnigiri

@Dygz yo that changes a lot. I didn’t realize that their is a longer time window for non participants?

And I mean it’s not like it can’t be a game mechanic as it would add risk for the attackers. However, it may also ruin rewarding attackers for their success. If six bounty hunters are sitting there, any non combatant is just gonna be able to grab their stuff and go. Based on new information I’d actually have a few non combatants state their claims as attackers and hold low attacking equipment and hit us a few times. Pretty sure that would give them access to the loot window faster and then they could ensure I keep my stuff. (And yes I know that means hiring or having extra friends who “could’ve” been useful in defending the raid just stand around or help minimally).
I think they would only attack if we had a good chance of winning. I like to imagine some days we’ll get swarmed by a group of attackers way larger than what I could possibly defend.

This is also all heavily dependent on how long the pvp zone lasts after the caravan is wrecked because the zone automatically reverts non combatants to combatants, making them fair game.

SaltyOnigiri

@Dolyem that is a good point. “The wiki says Non-corrupt players always respawn at the closest active respawn point (to their death).“

If that respawn point happened to be pretty close; technically defenders can also respawn and rejoin the fight as well so it “might” be balanced(although that’s gonna be a long fight).

@SongRune talked about how attackers should be planning when to attack so maybe they wait to strike until caravan is far enough away from respawn point to successfully raid? Or close enough to drag out the fight?

I’d also imagine that the vast majority of attackers wouldn’t know when the carravan is coming and so they prepare perfect “ambush spots” along roads and wait during prime caravan transport time to see if anyone moves goods.

Dygz

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

If six bounty hunters are sitting there, any non combatant is just gonna be able to grab their stuff and go.

People will grab their stuff and go in any case.
If PKers want to risk Corruption in order to grab more loot, they can do so.
If that becomes common, you can expect Bounty Hunters to choose to hang close to Caravans, even if they don't participate. Though there may be Bounty Hunters attacking and there may be Bounty Hunters defending.

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

This is also all heavily dependent on how long the pvp zone lasts after the caravan is wrecked because the zone automatically reverts non combatants to combatants, making them fair game.

I expect the PvP zone to immediately disappear after the Caravan is destroyed, so...
It's really more of a matter of how long people remain flagged as Combatant. If they don't immediately auto-flag back to Non-Combatant, it's 90 seconds to revert from Combatant to Non-Combatant.

SaltyOnigiri

I assumed the PVP zone would disappear immediately as well. Depending on whether it does or not will definitely determine how I go about transporting goods.

BaSkA_9x2

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

I think it’s interesting that “Anyone may loot the caravan's wreckage.”

Did Steven say this? Hopefully that's just half the explanation, which should be something like this:

Anyone may loot the caravan's wreckage, after the original attackers' loot timer.

In my mind, the Caravan loot should be like any mob loot: it's only lootable by the killing character/party/raid for X seconds and after that anyone can loot it.

SaltyOnigiri

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravan_PvP

@BaSkA13 I got it from one of the bullet points off the wiki. However it’s also been mentioned that…..

Dygz wrote: »

IIRC, there is a time window before the dropped loot is lootable by non-participants, but, yes... Non-Combatants who are friends with the defenders can pick up some of the loot.

I believe that’s all the info we have on that so far but I’ll keep reading through the Caravan info on wiki.

Ludullu

I keep forgetting that it's certificates for goods rather than just goods in the caravan. So I guess any one person could in fact just yoink it all up and easily cash it in the point of origin.

So my point about "attackers/defenders can't take all the loot" was moot.

Dygz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpieQoKYOjE&t=3863s
mark 1:05:25

Warth

NiKr wrote: »

I keep forgetting that it's certificates for goods rather than just goods in the caravan. So I guess any one person could in fact just yoink it all up and easily cash it in the point of origin.

So my point about "attackers/defenders can't take all the loot" was moot.

@NiKr I've listened to the segment where the statement comes from. Good question @Dygz

It can't just be yoinked it sounds like. They plan for the attackers to be fighting over who gets it in a FFA where even defender and non participants are able to participate.

Which i like as a system. That means that you aren't guaranteed any reward even if you successfully attack unless you also get rid of the other bandits and people around.

Probably through some cast time to pick up some loot and a pvp zone that stay post destruction.

Ludullu

Warth wrote: »

It can't just be yoinked it sounds like. They plan for the attackers to be fighting over who gets it in a FFA where even defender and non participants are able to participate.

Well yeah, there's still competition for the loot itself, but I saw it more as a "you literally can't carry all the contents of the caravan even if you wanted to", while in reality it's just "you'll have to fight for your right to grab the loot, but, on the off chance there's no one else around, you can still take it all".

Warth

NiKr wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

It can't just be yoinked it sounds like. They plan for the attackers to be fighting over who gets it in a FFA where even defender and non participants are able to participate.

Well yeah, there's still competition for the loot itself, but I saw it more as a "you literally can't carry all the contents of the caravan even if you wanted to", while in reality it's just "you'll have to fight for your right to grab the loot, but, on the off chance there's no one else around, you can still take it all".

Sounds that way to me as well. Which is fine as a concept i feel like.

SaltyOnigiri

I’m curious if certain classes will be more suited to run up, take, and make a beeline for it. For example rouges could turn invisible and make a speedy bolt for the goods. While attackers and defenders are still fighting over who gets to grab at the wreckage, a rouge looter can take their fill.

(Note. I know rouges can still kinda be seen while invisible but if I’m fighting they’ll be less noticeable)

Summoners may be able to have a tank summon hold off attackers while they run to grab the loot.

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