PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so. This argument is breaking down completly. He is arguing against you saying its just a cash grab tactic, not the gifting aspect. I beleive the gifting aspect is to prevent account selling because they have life time subscriptions available in some of the earier kick starter packs. Because they dont want the negative publisity of "ashes of creation accound sold on ebay for $50,000" they make all accounts untradeable, and lock all things sold in their shop to the account that purchased it. The gifting, sucks. Again. Give them the cash, and let them buy it that way.
Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so.
Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue.
Baltan wrote: » I know I bought into alpha 2 via the 250.00 pack because I love AoC, want to see it succeed and really want to test it to make it as good as possible, I want others to feel invested to and to take it seriously, if they just sold alpha access at rock bottom prices it would be a huge mess come test time
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Idk man. At this point you've been given your answers. If your not happy with it, that sucks. Hope things get better from here.
Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so. This argument is breaking down completly. He is arguing against you saying its just a cash grab tactic, not the gifting aspect. I beleive the gifting aspect is to prevent account selling because they have life time subscriptions available in some of the earier kick starter packs. Because they dont want the negative publisity of "ashes of creation accound sold on ebay for $50,000" they make all accounts untradeable, and lock all things sold in their shop to the account that purchased it. The gifting, sucks. Again. Give them the cash, and let them buy it that way. Anyone can sell their account, your argument is baseless. Technically someone could just make a fake account, buy access, and give it to their friends, if they so desired. There's absolutely no harm in being able to gift testing access to someone, without having to deal with things like giving them your full name and email, paying paypal fees, etc.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so. This argument is breaking down completly. He is arguing against you saying its just a cash grab tactic, not the gifting aspect. I beleive the gifting aspect is to prevent account selling because they have life time subscriptions available in some of the earier kick starter packs. Because they dont want the negative publisity of "ashes of creation accound sold on ebay for $50,000" they make all accounts untradeable, and lock all things sold in their shop to the account that purchased it. The gifting, sucks. Again. Give them the cash, and let them buy it that way. Anyone can sell their account, your argument is baseless. Technically someone could just make a fake account, buy access, and give it to their friends, if they so desired. There's absolutely no harm in being able to gift testing access to someone, without having to deal with things like giving them your full name and email, paying paypal fees, etc. I believe sharing accounts is against terms of service.... Now if your friend made an account. Gave you the password.... you used your creditcard on their account. And then they changed their password and poof they had access to alpha 2... i mean who would care about that? Its so easily got around in general that i dont know why you're here complaining about it. Or why i have to spell this out for you.
Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so. This argument is breaking down completly. He is arguing against you saying its just a cash grab tactic, not the gifting aspect. I beleive the gifting aspect is to prevent account selling because they have life time subscriptions available in some of the earier kick starter packs. Because they dont want the negative publisity of "ashes of creation accound sold on ebay for $50,000" they make all accounts untradeable, and lock all things sold in their shop to the account that purchased it. The gifting, sucks. Again. Give them the cash, and let them buy it that way. Anyone can sell their account, your argument is baseless. Technically someone could just make a fake account, buy access, and give it to their friends, if they so desired. There's absolutely no harm in being able to gift testing access to someone, without having to deal with things like giving them your full name and email, paying paypal fees, etc. I believe sharing accounts is against terms of service.... Now if your friend made an account. Gave you the password.... you used your creditcard on their account. And then they changed their password and poof they had access to alpha 2... i mean who would care about that? Its so easily got around in general that i dont know why you're here complaining about it. Or why i have to spell this out for you. I merely started a thread, to discuss the idea of being able to purchase and gift testing access. If you don't like that, stop participating in the discussion.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » Well, good thing you aren't the one making economic decisions for Intrepid. This is literally Econ101. You don't sell your product for 50$, while you still have tons of potential customers willing to fork out 250$. You first skim all those that are willing to pay more than the full price (oftentimes through preorder packages). Then you skim those that are willing to pay the full price. After which you slowly start introducing a series of rising discounts to get those that aren't willing to pay full price. Essentially trying to get everybody at the maximum price they are willing to pay. Introducing a way to buy testing access only would lead to plummeting number in package sales which would nake them lose out on large amounts of potential revenue. You're making absolutely no sense... I'm suggesting allowing those of us with the means, to be able to PURCHASE (at full pre-order pack prices) and gift access to folks who may not be able to afford the high price tag. Intrepid still gets the money. I can't comprehend how you've failed to understand this, when I literally stated spelled it out in post 3. I don't care about the items, I want to be able to pay $250 for Alpha access alone, with the ability to gift it to my friends and guild mates, because I have the money to do so. This argument is breaking down completly. He is arguing against you saying its just a cash grab tactic, not the gifting aspect. I beleive the gifting aspect is to prevent account selling because they have life time subscriptions available in some of the earier kick starter packs. Because they dont want the negative publisity of "ashes of creation accound sold on ebay for $50,000" they make all accounts untradeable, and lock all things sold in their shop to the account that purchased it. The gifting, sucks. Again. Give them the cash, and let them buy it that way. Anyone can sell their account, your argument is baseless. Technically someone could just make a fake account, buy access, and give it to their friends, if they so desired. There's absolutely no harm in being able to gift testing access to someone, without having to deal with things like giving them your full name and email, paying paypal fees, etc. I believe sharing accounts is against terms of service.... Now if your friend made an account. Gave you the password.... you used your creditcard on their account. And then they changed their password and poof they had access to alpha 2... i mean who would care about that? Its so easily got around in general that i dont know why you're here complaining about it. Or why i have to spell this out for you. I merely started a thread, to discuss the idea of being able to purchase and gift testing access. If you don't like that, stop participating in the discussion. Bro, ive been constructive towards your discussion. Offering ways around the gifting. And tuning in on my side of your arguments. You are the one becoming hostile. But as you wish, im done here.
Baltan wrote: » So help me understand, you want to gift people 250.00 AoC packs but you don't want them to know your actual name and don't want to just give them money? Why bother? That's a lot for strangers.
bloodprophet wrote: » Biggest problem with this is most people(we saw this in alpha-1) have no clue what a true alpha is. They go in thinking they are going to play a game. Then they get in and realize it is far from a completed game get snippy with posts and youtube videos strictly because they had no idea what to expect and start trying to compare it to a 20 year old game. The term "alpha" is a tricky one, and it typically has 2 meanings in gaming. The development meaning for alpha is a point in the process where we are ready to test the fundamental systems in their core form, without polish and without much of the content. Then, there is the external or "marketing" term for alpha. This is typically applied to Eastern-ported MMORPGs, when in fact that is a completed game being localized for a region, and not really indicative of a true development alpha. As you may know by now, game development has many stages - from the initial tech demos to the pre-production and pre-alpha states, then on to the alphas and betas and eventually launch.[9] – Steven Sharif I want to make emphatically clear, our alphas and betas are true development alphas and betas, and some have said I am crazy to allow these phases to be seen without an NDA…maybe I am crazy? lol… But I am trusting the community of gamers out there to get a glimpse into the process, and understand the long road ahead for what will eventually be worth the wait. Given time and talent, amazing things can happen, so make sure you help us in communicating that we are in open development which means people get to see the bare bones before the meat. And look, I know people see our 4K footage and say, "This looks better than most released games!", but trust me when I say, you ain't seen nothin’ yet.[9] – Steven Sharif
Nodoff wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » They want to high barrier of entry for Alpha Testing as it produces testers that are usually more invested in the success of the game. That's why packs exist. I don't see that changing either, as there really isn't any tangible advantage for them. Sorry my friend. That is a very bold assumption. It's far more likely that they want to make money... How would who purchased the pack effect the amount of money they make? If anything a single individual purchasing and gifting packs could potentially be more money in their pocket since you cant use your own refurral code i dont think... Yes, that's my point. Warth was insinuating that the price of access is high to supposedly get "better testers", which sounds like marketing nonsense. I was stating that the price is high because they are a business, and want to make money. In which case, it would be to their benefit to allow myself and others to buy and gift testing access to our friends and guildmembers. Also, in order to paypal someone, you need to be comfortable allowing them to know your email address and full name. I'm not comfortable with sharing that information with almost anyone I game with, even though I very much appreciate my guildies.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » They want to high barrier of entry for Alpha Testing as it produces testers that are usually more invested in the success of the game. That's why packs exist. I don't see that changing either, as there really isn't any tangible advantage for them. Sorry my friend. That is a very bold assumption. It's far more likely that they want to make money... How would who purchased the pack effect the amount of money they make? If anything a single individual purchasing and gifting packs could potentially be more money in their pocket since you cant use your own refurral code i dont think...
Nodoff wrote: » Warth wrote: » They want to high barrier of entry for Alpha Testing as it produces testers that are usually more invested in the success of the game. That's why packs exist. I don't see that changing either, as there really isn't any tangible advantage for them. Sorry my friend. That is a very bold assumption. It's far more likely that they want to make money...
Warth wrote: » They want to high barrier of entry for Alpha Testing as it produces testers that are usually more invested in the success of the game. That's why packs exist. I don't see that changing either, as there really isn't any tangible advantage for them. Sorry my friend.
Vykas wrote: » hey guys! so maybe just let nodoff (and me) know, if there is a way to gift pre-acces to friends and stop arguing against it
Vykas wrote: » hey guys! Nodoff, i got ur point! im in the same situation (or nearly) and cant understand all this "off-topic-comments". for those with the negative arguments: i want to buy a pre-order-package + alpha acces for my little brother as a birthday gift. he is a programmer, so i think the "if he cant buy it himself, he is a bad tester" thing isnt working here and i dont want to send him the money, because it destroys the gifting message. as you can imagine: you get 0,50$ from a friend as a gift, or you get a cup of coffee is a whole different story. so maybe just let nodoff (and me) know, if there is a way to gift pre-acces to friends and stop arguing against it
unknownsystemerror wrote: » Vykas wrote: » hey guys! so maybe just let nodoff (and me) know, if there is a way to gift pre-acces to friends and stop arguing against it There isn't a way. It has been ruled out repeatedly and the only way of going around their TOS can get you to where you lose both accounts if they bothered to care.
