Can you compare moba to mmo pvp?

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Ludullu

No.

Azherae

Yes.

Nerror

I mean, you can compare anything. Often it won't make sense.

Hinotori

Can you? Yes.

Should you? Is another question entirely.

Warth

You can.
You shouldn't as the base premises of both are inherently different.

Dygz

You shouldn't.

Lash

For a moba game you are starting at 0 progression and you experience an accelerated leveling and item acquisition process in the span of 30-60 minutes. For an mmo the pvp experience is separate from the progression aspects. People are not typically gaining new skills and items during a pvp encounter in an mmo. MMO pvp would be closer to a match in an FPS game than it would be to a moba in that regard.

I guess if you break it down into second to second gameplay you could compare them. Interactions with CC and teamwork are pretty close to what you would get in an MMO.

Dizz1

Yes you can.

The game type of moba is part of mmo pvp in short, but Ashes won't do that kind of contents as I know.

MaiWaifu

I guess it depends on what aspects you want to compare...

Combat mechanic/gameplay?

Item utility/optimization?

Skill floor/ceiling?

Personal player objectives/goals?

Balance updates?

Entertainment value?

There's a lot of specific aspects you can try and directly compare but I don't think many of them would be fair comparisons since the scope and aims of the games are quite different.

It's like comparing films of 2 different genres. Yeah you can compare quality of acting but there's a lot which might just come down to preference from the genre rather than being objectively better.

Dolyem

I would say you can utilize ability designs and group pvp aspects for comparison but not much else.

JustVine

Dolyem wrote: »

I would say you can utilize ability designs and group pvp aspects for comparison but not much else.

Well it's also a fairly PvX genre where map design is a key pillar for encounter balance, something I think Ashes is going to need to study and refine quite a lot, especially when it comes to siege design so I'd add that to the list as well.

CROW3

Can? Of course. Should? What authority are you appealing to as to whether you should or shouldn’t? Odd questions.

Here’s a better question: why? What are you hoping to advocate for or against by comparing them?

SirChancelot

Certain aspects sure... But can you be more specific?

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

I would say you can utilize ability designs and group pvp aspects for comparison but not much else.

Well it's also a fairly PvX genre where map design is a key pillar for encounter balance, something I think Ashes is going to need to study and refine quite a lot, especially when it comes to siege design so I'd add that to the list as well.

I could see that for battlegrounds and arenas, but honestly the way MOBAs are designed, the only thing the maps can be relative to are Arena/Objective PvP maps

DarkTides

I try to think of something in moba combat that an mmorpg hasnt had by now.... I think anything thats been in a moba has in some way been in an mmorpg as well, but depends on the games. They all combine various ways of executing combat, and in doing so, distinguishes them from one another.

I know I dont like the lack of abilities on my hotbar in a MOBA.

Dont like the isometric view when compared to 3rd person.

Not a fan of continual/endless click move click attack

Lots to think of really. Have to really know yourself and the games out there to provide a detailed opinion.

SirChancelot

DarkTides wrote: »

I try to think of something in moba combat that an mmorpg hasnt had by now.... I think anything thats been in a moba has in some way been in an mmorpg as well, but depends on the games. They all combine various ways of executing combat, and in doing so, distinguishes them from one another.

I know I dont like the lack of abilities on my hotbar in a MOBA.

Dont like the isometric view when compared to 3rd person.

Not a fan of continual/endless click move click attack

Lots to think of really. Have to really know yourself and the games out there to provide a detailed opinion.

There are a couple action combat mobas. And 6-12 action buttons is on brand with an MMO too.

JustVine

Dolyem wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

I would say you can utilize ability designs and group pvp aspects for comparison but not much else.

Well it's also a fairly PvX genre where map design is a key pillar for encounter balance, something I think Ashes is going to need to study and refine quite a lot, especially when it comes to siege design so I'd add that to the list as well.

I could see that for battlegrounds and arenas, but honestly the way MOBAs are designed, the only thing the maps can be relative to are Arena/Objective PvP maps

I think you misunderstand kind of. Sieges will be effected by the terrain of the node being sieged as well as the layout of the node's structures. So in order to understand the effects of these things they can use the principles found in other PvX games map design to help inform them.

Caravan's are a weaker example but are also going to essentially be 'payloads that need to be pushed from point a to point b' and the design of the routes between those two points are going to have a large impact on PvP over the course of the games lifespan. Other games with PvX especially a moving payload style PvX are certainly games I think IS could find useful to discuss amongst themselves.

Asgerr

The question isn't could you. The question is: why would you want to?

Garrtok

You shouldn't it's completely different

DarkTides

SirChancelot wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

I try to think of something in moba combat that an mmorpg hasnt had by now.... I think anything thats been in a moba has in some way been in an mmorpg as well, but depends on the games. They all combine various ways of executing combat, and in doing so, distinguishes them from one another.

I know I dont like the lack of abilities on my hotbar in a MOBA.

Dont like the isometric view when compared to 3rd person.

Not a fan of continual/endless click move click attack

Lots to think of really. Have to really know yourself and the games out there to provide a detailed opinion.

There are a couple action combat mobas. And 6-12 action buttons is on brand with an MMO too.

Yeah my mistake for singling out MOBAs for a lack of abilities on my bar... MMOs have had, what I personally consider to be, a lack of abilities, like New World. I should have said I dont like a lack of abilities in any game. Moba or mmorpg.

The other 2 criticisms I made were not directly singling out MOBAs, though I can see how that could be inferred.

This is why I started off my reply the way I did. Moba or not, theyve probably both shared the same aspects of combat by now, with all the different games that have been created. So unless youve played absolutely every single moba and mmorpg out there, then its hard to call out a specific genre for having or lacking something, as someone will always have a reply to say well this game has that too and thats a moba, or that game has that too and thats an mmorpg.

So really, its a secret sauce of various aspects that make or break the combat, which depends on what players find most appealing and fun.

Tailoring those aspects for what is trying to be accomplished, I suppose, is why we see the differences we do.

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