Suggestion: Pirate / Exiled Status

Spodos

Not sure if you guys have considered this, but it would be great to have an end-game status you could obtain that lets you PVP at will without gaining corruption, but others are automatically flagged against you and can attack you without penalty as well. Maybe you make it harder to participate in the economy, don't get access to the same citizen benefits, etc.

Thinking something like the pirate faction in Archeage (or the exile faction from EQ2) for those who really want to focus on PVP.

My guildmates and I really enjoyed the experience in those games and it would be great to have something similar.

NiKr

There'd have to be a ton of limitations to this feature at which point it wouldn't be much different from just the current system. And if you don't put limitations on it - you have yourself a permanent PKer that's free to abuse anyone and everyone they see.

Dolyem

I dont know about all that but I do think open sea areas should potentially be corruptionless zones. Ain't no law out there, could make long distance oversea mule/caravan runs more risk vs reward.

Scarbeus

As mentioned it would have to be heavily limited including things like if they kill you then if you are a combatant or non combatant you don't take any punishment so they can't loot you or anything. After all if you are well into the PvP you would be doing it for the fun, and don't forget that the corrupted still need punishing! That means they and the other pirates can still get looted.

I haven't played any games with a faction like this so I really don't know how the gameplay feels with them in, and I don't know how it would work with the current PvP system.

FuryBladeborne

Spodos wrote: »

Not sure if you guys have considered this, but it would be great to have an end-game status you could obtain that lets you PVP at will without gaining corruption, but others are automatically flagged against you and can attack you without penalty as well. Maybe you make it harder to participate in the economy, don't get access to the same citizen benefits, etc.

Thinking something like the pirate faction in Archeage (or the exile faction from EQ2) for those who really want to focus on PVP.

My guildmates and I really enjoyed the experience in those games and it would be great to have something similar.

You can PVP at will without gaining corruption provided that those players fight back. You only gain corruption if you kill players that do not fight back. Also, people are effectively paid to fight back because if the attacked player fights and dies then the player loses less than if the player had not fought back.

If you are flagged for combat and others attack you, they will become flagged as well. In such a case none of you will gain corruption from killing one another.

You can pirate if you want to. If those players fight then you won't have to worry about corruption. If they don't, then you will gain double the loot from the player kills but will have to manage corruption.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death

Taleof2Cities

I don't think Steven would be too keen on a special exempt status from corruption ... and similar ideas have been proposed before (and shot down) in the forums.

That said, the other replies are correct though.

You can definitely do all the pirating you want (without corruption) as long as players are willing to fight back. That's within the game mechanics.

DrPlague

But there's no factions in AOC...... This isn't archeage. Nothing is stopping you from making a PK guild and role play as pirates, but adding the mechanic just isn't going to happen.

Spodos

Yeah I guess I kind of saw it as an end-game of the corruption system but without the combat penalties and instead with stronger economic penalties. Like your guild decides you want to have constant PVP - with the corruption system, you can't really do that since you become combat ineffective.

Maybe if the penalties for corruption were against individual players (i.e. if you spam kill someone you lose combat effectiveness and can drop full items against them, but not for others) it would be better. But right now it feels like the system is going to limit FFA PVP, and I'm proposing an alternative end game approach to allow for people who want to have that experience.

Asgerr

No

Hinotori

Suggestion:

If you want to become a pirate and pvp to your hearts content then engage in piracy.

Naval caravans (like land caravans) are PVP enabled with no corruption penalties for hoisting your Jolly Roger and fighting over a cargo hold of merchant booty on the high seas.

FuryBladeborne

Spodos wrote: »

... Like your guild decides you want to have constant PVP - with the corruption system, you can't really do that since you become combat ineffective.

It looks like you didn't catch this yet. You can PVP as much as you want (and anywhere in the world) with no corruption. As long as the other players fight as well.

Since players are effectively paid to defend themselves in the form of reduced losses on death, players will probably fight unless they are too weak to stand a chance. So, in general you should be able to PVP as much as you want too as long as your not slaughtering lowbies.

Spodos

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Spodos wrote: »

... Like your guild decides you want to have constant PVP - with the corruption system, you can't really do that since you become combat ineffective.

It looks like you didn't catch this yet. You can PVP as much as you want (and anywhere in the world) with no corruption. As long as the other players fight as well.

Since players are effectively paid to defend themselves in the form of reduced losses on death, players will probably fight unless they are too weak to stand a chance. So, in general you should be able to PVP as much as you want too as long as your not slaughtering lowbies.

I think that only works as long as people don't try to exploit it, which won't be very long. Say you are trying to defend a farm spot, and someone comes along and starts attacking all the mobs to try to steal it. You kill them, they don't fight back, you gain corruption - they respawn and repeat until you lose combat effectiveness and can't defend the spot anymore. Or think about it with guilds contesting an open world raid boss and they do the same thing. There are always ways to exploit stuff like this, and it was a huge relief to just be able to exile / pirate and fight whoever whenever.

Was a really fun experience in other games. Sounds like none of you have had that experience, but it makes for a much better endgame if you are a real PVPer.

NiKr

Spodos wrote: »

Say you are trying to defend a farm spot, and someone comes along and starts attacking all the mobs to try to steal it. You kill them, they don't fight back, you gain corruption - they respawn and repeat until you lose combat effectiveness and can't defend the spot anymore.

If that person can outfarm your spot - imo they deserve it more than you. And if you can't bring them down accurately enough for mobs to finish them off - they definitely deserve it more than you.

Spodos wrote: »

Or think about it with guilds contesting an open world raid boss and they do the same thing.

That's why there's the GW system. Declare a war on the guild that's most likely to do this and you can pvp them all you want. And if Intrepid keeps the L2's "one-sided war" part of the system (I don't think they are, but still) - that guild's reputation will be in the shitter, same as it was in L2. If your guild never accepted war declarations before boss farms, your guild would get a lesser inflow of members, because everyone around would be telling tales about your guild being a weakling. You might get a few boss kills from that, but in the long run there's a higher chance of failure.

BaSkA_9x2

I think the current system is already good enough. If it turns out the current system isn't good and needs some tweaks during/after Alpha 2, then ideas that affect corruption and forced PvP should start being considered.

Songcaller

I'm against.

FuryBladeborne

Spodos wrote: »

Say you are trying to defend a farm spot, and someone comes along and starts attacking all the mobs to try to steal it. You kill them, they don't fight back, you gain corruption - they respawn and repeat until you lose combat effectiveness and can't defend the spot anymore.

Death penalty is very similar to corruption. It includes reduced drop rates based on experience debt. The penalty is probably harsh because non-combatants (meaning not fighting in PVP) take double penalties for death. So stealing the spawn in the way you describe would cause a theoretically successful thief to take what is probably significant reductions to drops.

Also, the player defending the farming spot is not going choose to go very corrupt because of the risk of dropping equipped gear.

Personally, I feel like the system is fine as similar systems have been used for many years in at least several games with good results. However, testing will show more and Steven is open to changes based on testing. So we will see.

Songcaller

I'm not sure what all these games are people keep referring to with regards to the corruption system. Only l2 had marginal success with the system, the rest - like BDO, had a watered down version that continued and continues to be watered down with every passing month.

FuryBladeborne

I played a game called conquer online for years with a similar but much less punishing system that I was quite happy with. The primary attraction of that game was PVP everywhere. I think Ashes system is much improved over that one.

I have heard from several people that the system in L2 was great. So, I think the perception of success there might be personal preference.

Songcaller

Yeah, Archeage also had a watered down version. I'd hesitate to call anything more or less punishing when we have no actual footage or parameters related to anything. My suspicion is that corruption won't be too bad from one kill which steven used to say. Especially since there is a tier of degradation in ashes. The problem we have or the matter of fact remains that certain groups want the harshest punishments just for one single kill. I believe that mode of punishment is reserved for when a high level kills a low level. In accordance with ganking rather than griefing.