Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

[Suggestion & Discussion] Hair Growth - Immersion & RP

DeathweptDeathwept Member
edited September 2022 in General Discussion
Hello everyone, Deathwept here! Hope this post finds you well. I wanted to suggest, as well as discuss hair growth in Ashes of Creation!

Let’s start will a question, will there be hair growth in the game? (And what do I mean when asking this?)

In RDR2 this was one of the most immersive elements I’ve seen in a game ever, along with hygiene/visual weathering of the MC.

Especially with the amount of customization that’s available in the creation suite of ashes, I think it would be so cool and immersive to see your hair, be it facial or on your head grow through out your journey as you play.

Imagine being on a long journey, travel, hunt, campaign, or voyage and seeing your hair style and beard style get more exaggerated as it changes in length as you negate to keep it well kept while other, more important tasks are at hand. Picture arriving a port, and your friends as well as strangers can visual tell you’ve been on a long journey. “Man, you’ve seen better days haven’t ya?”

What maybe even harder would be seeing your braids come undone over time or even have them grow naturally along the way as well. But if there’s one team or game I think would be capable of doing this in would intrepid/ashes.

Whether you could trim yourself using a knife, configure** this at a mirror or have a npc that does it for (and further adding a money sink, maintenance to the average character.) I would find this so beloved and immersive.

Personally I believe some of the smallest details, and story crafting happen progressively in the smallest ways to your character. And I would love the team to take advantage of that with this suggestion!

Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings on this topic, and maybe share some stories you’ve created for yourself in games through this type of immersion!

Footnote: while I know many would enjoy this feature, often times a more casual player may say, “what if I just want a static character? I don’t want to have to constantly keep up my characters appearance or waste my time with this type of element.” And fair enough! Some times simplicity needs to take precedent especially since this might require far greater resources and time than I can imagine. But I find it a worthy one! (Also if the system is in place maybe it could be toggle-able? or even regions of the face/head could be toggled to simulate a race or character that might not grow facial hair in the areas that are in the creation suite. Who knows! But I just wanted to add this to also convey I understand the prospective from different players and the dev position if this suggestion/request isn’t viable.
«1

Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    You could go to a barber and adjust your hair length in the Character Creator.
  • ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    As much as I love immersion within a game, I don't want to have to worry about getting a haircut while I'm out in the world. Over time I sometimes adjust the hairstyle to represent time passing but I like choosing that- not it being forced on me.
    "Bravery only means something to those who are afraid of death."
  • I'm not sure about hair growing automatically, but I definitely hope you're able to go to a barber and change your hairstyle whenever you want. I also wouldn't mind being able to go to a witch and changing tattoos, earrings and maybe even height, skin color, etc. Options and variety are the keywords.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited September 2022
    @Chime

    Real life must be suffering for you lmao

    It's a good idea @Deathwept
  • Honestly, I'd see this as more of a chore than anything else.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • @Chime

    Real life must be suffering for you lmao

    It's a good idea @Deathwept

    Thank you @Sapiverenus! I thought more people would enjoy the idea, but clearly even if it were toggle-able most are finding it as maintenance. To me, I don’t find it anymore time consuming/can be included in the gameplay loop of armor degradation. As you become more battle/war-torn your armor and body start to show it.

    Especially with this game having a strong focus on time focused changes in the world, I’m surprised that others don’t want to see themselves change with world. Oh well. Gotta keep dreamin’!
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd see this as more of a chore than anything else.

    as often with gameplay/mechanics ideas to have a game more "realist"
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    @Chime

    Real life must be suffering for you lmao

    It is. That's why nobody makes it out alive.
    lsb9nxihx5vc.png
  • Natasha wrote: »
    @Chime

    Real life must be suffering for you lmao

    It is. That's why nobody makes it out alive.

    It’s great to see there might be other players to have more philosophical conversations with. 😂 or comical at the very least!
  • ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    *gasp* I was insulted online, whatever will I do?

    "Bravery only means something to those who are afraid of death."
  • edited September 2022
    I'm gonna pass on this... Getting a haircut weekly/biweekly in real life is already a chore. I'd rather have the option to change my hair in-game WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Don't want to be forced to keep myself groomed in-game. I just wanna play and enjoy the beautiful game.
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.
  • Hobo simulator
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.
  • Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.

    This is a terrible idea we dont need 100 chores in a mmorpg game this isn't RL. Growing hair has nothing to do with rp and needing to cut it ever week. Now if you change your character and add longer hair and rp it that is all fine for you.
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.

    This is a terrible idea we dont need 100 chores in a mmorpg game this isn't RL. Growing hair has nothing to do with rp and needing to cut it ever week. Now if you change your character and add longer hair and rp it that is all fine for you.

    You aired the idea of PVP servers with full loot which completely against this games design, and completely opposed to Steven’s design philosophy. Not sure you’d be the guy I’d look for to describe what a terrible idea is…

    As stated in the post it could even be toggle-able, and I even included ideas to satisfy the casual, objective to objective players as well. Which based on most responses no one read that far.

    Also what many deem as “chores” are what many people call immersion. In your perspective there would be no point in animating characters eating or drinking food, because it would just be a chore and waste of time to wait a few seconds to watch your character eat or drink because you could just click the item and instantly reap the benefit.

    You also clearly don’t understand RP or even RP elements, nor what makes games immersive. So I’d urge you to study some design philosophy. Because games without it are boring and fail. (Which are two things I think Ashes will not be nor do.)

    Any opposed or don’t like the idea/feature is completely valid to feel that way and was welcomed. But I don’t accept your claim that this is terrible idea.

  • Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.

    This is a terrible idea we dont need 100 chores in a mmorpg game this isn't RL. Growing hair has nothing to do with rp and needing to cut it ever week. Now if you change your character and add longer hair and rp it that is all fine for you.

    You aired the idea of PVP servers with full loot which completely against this games design, and completely opposed to Steven’s design philosophy. Not sure you’d be the guy I’d look for to describe what a terrible idea is…

    As stated in the post it could even be toggle-able, and I even included ideas to satisfy the casual, objective to objective players as well. Which based on most responses no one read that far.

    Also what many deem as “chores” are what many people call immersion. In your perspective there would be no point in animating characters eating or drinking food, because it would just be a chore and waste of time to wait a few seconds to watch your character eat or drink because you could just click the item and instantly reap the benefit.

    You also clearly don’t understand RP or even RP elements, nor what makes games immersive. So I’d urge you to study some design philosophy. Because games without it are boring and fail. (Which are two things I think Ashes will not be nor do.)

    Any opposed or don’t like the idea/feature is completely valid to feel that way and was welcomed. But I don’t accept your claim that this is terrible idea.

    You are the guy that doesn't read a post and reads a headline. You are definitely not someone id ever take ideas from since you can't even read the post. Thought that was 101 on a forum, the reading part.

    I understand rp and that is not a feature that needs to be added that is a waste of time when they have 1000 other things they are working on so we have a game.

    I understand rp very well, its about a story, and growing hair frankly doesn't add anything to rp nor is yuor beard or hair grow going to be the focus of a rp. Unless you as a rper bring notice to it in how you interact and "roleplay" with people. Which the system its you want is a complete gimmick and any real rper will simply change their character appearance and bring notice to it through rp with a group that vibes with that.

    Again i know plenty on rp, and generic hair growth is not adding to any roleplay story.

    Again it is a terrible idea, next you will want to be tripping nails, automatic age growth, etc. If you are a rper you will simply change your character and rp it.
  • DeathweptDeathwept Member
    edited September 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.

    This is a terrible idea we dont need 100 chores in a mmorpg game this isn't RL. Growing hair has nothing to do with rp and needing to cut it ever week. Now if you change your character and add longer hair and rp it that is all fine for you.

    You aired the idea of PVP servers with full loot which completely against this games design, and completely opposed to Steven’s design philosophy. Not sure you’d be the guy I’d look for to describe what a terrible idea is…

    As stated in the post it could even be toggle-able, and I even included ideas to satisfy the casual, objective to objective players as well. Which based on most responses no one read that far.

    Also what many deem as “chores” are what many people call immersion. In your perspective there would be no point in animating characters eating or drinking food, because it would just be a chore and waste of time to wait a few seconds to watch your character eat or drink because you could just click the item and instantly reap the benefit.

    You also clearly don’t understand RP or even RP elements, nor what makes games immersive. So I’d urge you to study some design philosophy. Because games without it are boring and fail. (Which are two things I think Ashes will not be nor do.)

    Any opposed or don’t like the idea/feature is completely valid to feel that way and was welcomed. But I don’t accept your claim that this is terrible idea.

    You are the guy that doesn't read a post and reads a headline. You are definitely not someone id ever take ideas from since you can't even read the post. Thought that was 101 on a forum, the reading part.

    I understand rp and that is not a feature that needs to be added that is a waste of time when they have 1000 other things they are working on so we have a game.

    I understand rp very well, its about a story, and growing hair frankly doesn't add anything to rp nor is yuor beard or hair grow going to be the focus of a rp. Unless you as a rper bring notice to it in how you interact and "roleplay" with people. Which the system its you want is a complete gimmick and any real rper will simply change their character appearance and bring notice to it through rp with a group that vibes with that.

    Again i know plenty on rp, and generic hair growth is not adding to any roleplay story.

    Again it is a terrible idea, next you will want to be tripping nails, automatic age growth, etc. If you are a rper you will simply change your character and rp it.

    I have no interest any of the ideas you suggested I would. I’m not an RPer in its truest since. I’m a fan of simple immersion. But based on your response you have furthered my point of knowing about game design philosophy, immersion, or RP. But seemingly you’re a troll at best, so I won’t dedicate anymore time to responding to you. Would much rather have an actual conversation, especially with someone that has some standard for the word terrible.
  • Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Deathwept wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    No this is a terrible idea. I want to play a PvX game not live in a simulator and have feature creep.

    Yes, because hair growth equals simulator and feature creep. The idea doesn’t need to be implemented, but it’s not terrible. The Ashes team frequently talks about immersion, world building, and RP opportunities. This wouldn’t be exactly outside their wheel house.

    This is a terrible idea we dont need 100 chores in a mmorpg game this isn't RL. Growing hair has nothing to do with rp and needing to cut it ever week. Now if you change your character and add longer hair and rp it that is all fine for you.

    You aired the idea of PVP servers with full loot which completely against this games design, and completely opposed to Steven’s design philosophy. Not sure you’d be the guy I’d look for to describe what a terrible idea is…

    As stated in the post it could even be toggle-able, and I even included ideas to satisfy the casual, objective to objective players as well. Which based on most responses no one read that far.

    Also what many deem as “chores” are what many people call immersion. In your perspective there would be no point in animating characters eating or drinking food, because it would just be a chore and waste of time to wait a few seconds to watch your character eat or drink because you could just click the item and instantly reap the benefit.

    You also clearly don’t understand RP or even RP elements, nor what makes games immersive. So I’d urge you to study some design philosophy. Because games without it are boring and fail. (Which are two things I think Ashes will not be nor do.)

    Any opposed or don’t like the idea/feature is completely valid to feel that way and was welcomed. But I don’t accept your claim that this is terrible idea.

    You are the guy that doesn't read a post and reads a headline. You are definitely not someone id ever take ideas from since you can't even read the post. Thought that was 101 on a forum, the reading part.

    I understand rp and that is not a feature that needs to be added that is a waste of time when they have 1000 other things they are working on so we have a game.

    I understand rp very well, its about a story, and growing hair frankly doesn't add anything to rp nor is yuor beard or hair grow going to be the focus of a rp. Unless you as a rper bring notice to it in how you interact and "roleplay" with people. Which the system its you want is a complete gimmick and any real rper will simply change their character appearance and bring notice to it through rp with a group that vibes with that.

    Again i know plenty on rp, and generic hair growth is not adding to any roleplay story.

    Again it is a terrible idea, next you will want to be tripping nails, automatic age growth, etc. If you are a rper you will simply change your character and rp it.

    I have no interest any of the ideas you suggested I would. I’m not an RPer in its truest since. I’m a fan of simple immersion. But based on your response you have furthered my point of knowing about game design philosophy, immersion, or RP. But seemingly you’re a troll at best, so I won’t dedicate anymore time to responding to you. Would much rather have an actual conversation, especially with someone that has some standard for the word terrible.

    When you call someone a troll and talk crap without reading a post. I simply feel your idea is terrible for reasons stated Extra features not needed the fact it would be toggle shows its a much smaller player base, doesn't actually create more immersion it is more akin to a chore it is simply longer hair or a beard, it be better to want or use more customization into he game to adjust your character, this hair growth has nothing to do with game design, doesn't add to roleplay as roleplaying is what really brings emphasis like writing a post on it with your group.

    I have standards and worst terms I can use if I feel something is even more bad. It is my opinion on what I feel is bad and you are simply getting emotional over hair growth...
  • prymortalprymortal Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.
  • prymortal wrote: »
    Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.

    Wait what did BDO do? Didn't even think they had people rping on there.
  • prymortal wrote: »
    FFXIV
    RP'ers ruin a MMO

    Hah, wow.

    Show me on this doll where a cute Mi'qote girl refused to touch you.
  • prymortal wrote: »
    Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.
    prymortal wrote: »
    Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.
    prymortal wrote: »
    Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.

    Seems forget the whole RPG part that’s attached to MMORPG. I’m not saying the community should have special voices, and LARP. I’d just rather see plants grow back over their respawn timer instead of things popping into the world. That’s the only immersive/rp type elements I’ve suggested.

  • I'm gonna pass on this... Getting a haircut weekly/biweekly in real life is already a chore. I'd rather have the option to change my hair in-game WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Don't want to be forced to keep myself groomed in-game. I just wanna play and enjoy the beautiful game.

    Who the hell gets a haircut weekly and why would a quarter inch of hair on your character trigger OCD
  • Deathwept wrote: »
    Whether you could trim yourself using a knife, confit fire this at a mirror or have a npc that does it for (and further adding a money sink, maintenance to the average character.) I would find this so beloved and immersive.
    I would rather have players help each-other. Helps being social.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • edited September 2022
    I'm gonna pass on this... Getting a haircut weekly/biweekly in real life is already a chore. I'd rather have the option to change my hair in-game WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Don't want to be forced to keep myself groomed in-game. I just wanna play and enjoy the beautiful game.

    Who the hell gets a haircut weekly and why would a quarter inch of hair on your character trigger OCD

    I live in Los Angeles, it's pretty normal here to get one weekly/biweekly. Looks plays a big part in this city. Both in your career and personal life.
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Immersion : subjectiv.

    For you it would probably be more immersiv to have to cut your hair every X hours played.
    I don't doubt about it.

    For me, and for others, if the game remember us many "IRL chores" ... it would get us "out of the game" so... immersion breaking feature.

    Here we speak about game development also. Immersion is part of it... but lets see how impactfull it will be on gameplay... i don't see how it would add a change to the gaming experience (aside the time lost to have to often get to barber)
  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited September 2022
    @TheDarkSorcerer
    I am guessing your hair grows fast. Short sides too.

    A wild fantasy world should have hair growth you can tame if you individually wish to though.
    An eighth to a quarter inch a week or whatever matches about average hair growth would be cool.
  • Aerlana wrote: »
    Immersion : subjectiv.

    For you it would probably be more immersiv to have to cut your hair every X hours played.
    I don't doubt about it.

    For me, and for others, if the game remember us many "IRL chores" ... it would get us "out of the game" so... immersion breaking feature.

    Here we speak about game development also. Immersion is part of it... but lets see how impactfull it will be on gameplay... i don't see how it would add a change to the gaming experience (aside the time lost to have to often get to barber)

    Immersion means to be immersed in the world, making it feel real. You don’t want upkeep or things to mimic real life in a game because it would take you out of it, that’s escapism not immersion.

    I’m not suggesting that our characters have to use the restroom every x amount of hours, or that you have to take your pets for walks. Having a hair growth mechanic that I even suggested could be toggle-able being deemed as a chore by quite a few people seems more depressing than anything. Why have armor degradation then? Does it remind us are shoes get worn out and we may have to purchase another pair IRL? If you want to have an immersive world you don’t want to see everyone just going to from objective to objective, seeing them wear the same armor and clothes as the first day you met them as they are a year later in game.

    This is why the nodes are game changing and time locked, we’re forced to understand Rome isn’t built in a day and neither are the nodes they change and the things you as they evolve will too. Are mayors a choir? We might have to elect someone, they’ll even have policies! Oh my! That’s more of a real life chore then having my hair growth as I play! At least it may be something that could be toggled in my recommendation.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2022
    Deathwept wrote: »

    Immersion means to be immersed in the world, making it feel real. You don’t want upkeep or things to mimic real life in a game because it would take you out of it, that’s escapism not immersion.

    No, i am not immerse in a world because it feels real. I love good music, it helps me to get immerse in the world... but this is an extremly unrealistic addition to the game ambience.
    To have your world feel realist, you have to shut down all music... because there are not angels everywhere in the sky doing music... So lets remove music out of the game ?

    With 25 years (even more) playing video game, i know which game offered me the most immersiv experience, and was not the most realist one... but those where the gameplay makes me totally sink into the game, with a good music and sound design. Even graphical comes far after both those 2 points for my immersion...
    I was perfeclyt immerse while playing Yoko Taro's game or Hollow knight for example, far from any kind of realism, and was totally immerse on each of my playtime on them.

    You ask armor degradation : i don't care if we have it or not, really... but what interest me if there is a durability mechanic, with repair, and how it works. Here i speak about gameplay. (which is a point to have me immerse... a good gameplay get me immerse in the game). The visual degradation ? Just bind it to the durability. if you are at 1% your armor is visually full of hole. and when you repair it, back to 100% it shines again. negativ OR positiv impact on gameplay : 0.
    The armor reparation itself will consume part of what people are farming => it has its own impact on economy. I just hope it will be easy to get reparation if you have what you need to do it.
    For men the visual degradation is a good additiv detail.

    your idea : force you to stop play the game to run to barber shop sometime just to have this haircut, the benefit on gameplay side ? nothing.

    You speak about mayor, node, laws, etc... again, they are part of the gameplay, it will make people run away or favor a node to another. try to get the spot to design the node a way fitting more what the mayor and its guilds favor, want.


    Prove me that your idea is more than just "have sometime a forced haircut" but a real gameplay impact that will influence how people will interact with the game and i will think about it...
    For now, the gameplay your idea promises me would make me remove my head of the game, and so... won't feel totally immerse.
    Will it cost enough to be meaningfull in the "goldsink" ? will character get a bonuses the few minutes/hours after the haircut ? Does the not doing the haircut will slowly nerf character in its accuracy ? Is it needed to interact with other player to do it, or get to a specific size of node or anywhere is fine ? Maybe you need a T4+ node if you want to have specific haircut ?
Sign In or Register to comment.